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redcagepatrol
02-11-2009, 09:56 PM
So, it's been six years since I built the Patrol and it's time for a "refresher"

Here is the build thread (from 2002), I finished the truck on 3-4-2003... http://tamor.org/forums/showthread.php?t=240&highlight=patrol

Here are the build pictures:
http://offroadrepublic.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=20758

Since I built it the only major change that I did was the rear suspension 4-link geometry and set up.

What have I broken?
I've had plenty of steering issues: I started off with ram assist, then thought that it would work with just the ram, then broke the ram, then broke several iterations of ram mounts etc... It's been working pretty good since I fixed it at a shop in CO after breaking it on the Independence Trail in Penrose.

On the front axle, I broke one inner shaft (stock) and then switched to 4340 stuff. I also broke the "Lincoln" locker in the front third once

On the rear axle, I've broken at least 3 R&P's, two welded spider gears, and the "Lincoln" lock welds once.

I've broken about three rear driveshafts (the CV) and I broke the weld on the front once. I've always carried spare shafts so not a big deal.

I've also broken one T-Case rear output shaft (replaced back with stock)

The Goals:
1) change rear axle to something stronger (Ford 9)
2) Spend as little money as possible
3) lighten the rig
4) plan for bigger tires

How will I meet these goals?
1) change the rear axle to a Ford 9 Spidertrax housing.
2) lose weight by cutting off rear frame and switching to air shocks from coils, shocks, and frame
3) change the rear to some type of "skins"
4) possibly drop the front hood-line for better vision - do something with front fenders (the driver side looks like crap)

We'll start with "Before" pictures

redcagepatrol
02-11-2009, 10:00 PM
"As is" Pictures

redcagepatrol
02-11-2009, 10:06 PM
last night pics - and some new parts

redcagepatrol
02-11-2009, 10:13 PM
I'm not sure I'll get anything done tonight, but I hope to get the rear axle out pretty soon.

Debating if I want to change the lower link material (go to exotic) any to help lighten it up - but that conflicts with the "stay cheap" rule...

The 4 link that i've been running has a few problems
1) it hit the gas tank on uptravel
2) it hit the frame on up-travel (worked well for limiting uptravel)
3) they hit each - other when flexed out (bending upper links slightly)

I think I'll make some very slight adjustments to keep them from hitting each other - get rid of frame, and move the gas tank to fix the other problems.

Graystroke
02-11-2009, 10:25 PM
uh oh, there's those crazy jackstands again!
:flipoff2:

J Cooper
02-11-2009, 10:34 PM
that thing looked sweet when it was new


now it looks sad :(

Graystroke
02-11-2009, 11:15 PM
I don't know crap about suspension set-ups but what is the advantage of crossing the links like that? why couldn't the links that attach to the pumkin be a little closer together where they attach to the frame and the outer ones on the axle tube run parallel w/ the frame?

looking at the picture of the rear suspension what would happen if you shortened the links and swapped them and made the center ones mounts a little further apart?

Graystroke
02-11-2009, 11:28 PM
bad rendition...It would be like a rover three link. replace the heims on frame w/ a johnny joint or something? the middle I don't think is so critical. the middle on the axle end needs a lot of movement.

Graystroke
02-11-2009, 11:30 PM
oh crap, your drive shaft come out way back there...never mind.

Seth
02-11-2009, 11:32 PM
Food for thought. Don't air shocks and the fancy 9 housing also break the "cheap rule"? Are super duper titanium alloy links super expensive?

mudtoy67
02-11-2009, 11:38 PM
Very cool!


:gigem:

breckboarder55
02-12-2009, 10:34 AM
Why don't you just cut the old fenders out and run some sheet metal to the tube?

uglyota
02-12-2009, 10:51 AM
The Goals:
1) change rear axle to something stronger (Ford 9)
2) Spend as little money as possible
3) lighten the rig
4) plan for bigger tires

How will I meet these goals?
1) change the rear axle to a Ford 9 Spidertrax housing.
2) lose weight by cutting off rear frame and switching to air shocks from coils, shocks, and frame
3) change the rear to some type of "skins"
4) possibly drop the front hood-line for better vision - do something with front fenders (the driver side looks like crap)


You silly engineers! :D
I think aluminum lowers would be rad, but don't think the weight goal should be a reason for them since they're more or less unsprung. The ability of them to bounce back after bending may be a good reason to get them.

grayson I think you're describing a single triangulated 4-link. What the difference between his current double triangulated 4-link and that is, I don't know. I think double triangulated has a little more redundancy in the design (panhard duties are shouldered by all 4 links rather than just the uppers in the single triangulated)

redcagepatrol
02-12-2009, 11:01 AM
Food for thought. Don't air shocks and the fancy 9 housing also break the "cheap rule"? Are super duper titanium alloy links super expensive?

a little, but planning for the future - they are "investments"

redcagepatrol
02-12-2009, 11:03 AM
I don't know crap about suspension set-ups but what is the advantage of crossing the links like that? why couldn't the links that attach to the pumkin be a little closer together where they attach to the frame and the outer ones on the axle tube run parallel w/ the frame?

looking at the picture of the rear suspension what would happen if you shortened the links and swapped them and made the center ones mounts a little further apart?

You'd have to study up on suspension performance - I can't explain it all right here. I can tell you that haveing lower links parallel to the frame SUCKS donky balls and gives you terrible rear steer. That's how I had it built the first time...

redcagepatrol
02-12-2009, 11:04 AM
Why don't you just cut the old fenders out and run some sheet metal to the tube?

It will be something like that when it's all done

eight
02-12-2009, 03:43 PM
Yes the rear steer is the problem. I think you could make the uppers straight though and be fine. I figure might as well do both. It would leave more space for exhaust and such with straight uppers.

redcagepatrol
02-12-2009, 04:12 PM
Food for thought. Don't air shocks and the fancy 9 housing also break the "cheap rule"? Are super duper titanium alloy links super expensive?

Also - my other option was starting from a tube chassis... So this route is MUCH cheaper than that...

uglyota
02-12-2009, 04:36 PM
Not to mention the hospital bills you'd save after all your friends get done kicking you in the nuts for putting a 22re in a tube chassis

Lynda
02-12-2009, 05:07 PM
Watch it, we aren't done trying for another baby....wait till I give the thumbs up :) j/k, please don't disfigure him, I think he's handsome

redcagepatrol
02-12-2009, 05:12 PM
Not to mention the hospital bills you'd save after all your friends get done kicking you in the nuts for putting a 22re in a tube chassis

exactly - if I purchased a tube chassis - I'd be obligated to getting a 6.0 or better Gen III engine (has to be better than Lynda's) - and if I went to the V8 I would have to change the front axle, tranny, and t-case....

And then your looking at over $30,000 - so, cheap is a relative term:flipoff2:

Lynda
02-12-2009, 05:19 PM
I don't see why it has to better than mine, you can't even handle the power mine put's out. I'm going to start calling you Roller Scotts

Sharpe
02-12-2009, 05:29 PM
I don't see why it has to better than mine,

Women usually dont understand spite as well as men do :laughing:

jerryg79
02-12-2009, 05:29 PM
I don't see why it has to better than mine, you can't even handle the power mine put's out. I'm going to start calling you Roller Scotts

don't you try to one-up scott! That's busa's job!!!

FJAggie07
02-12-2009, 05:38 PM
Women usually dont understand spite as well as men do :laughing:

Don't know what women you have been hanging around... :( :D

Busa
02-12-2009, 07:13 PM
I am not going to be one up one the wife's Scrambler when i get it done. Have not make a tread yet, there is not much to look at.

Graystroke
02-12-2009, 07:20 PM
You'd have to study up on suspension performance - I can't explain it all right here. I can tell you that haveing lower links parallel to the frame SUCKS donky balls and gives you terrible rear steer. That's how I had it built the first time...

if you make the lowers really long wouldn't that negate a lot of the rear steer? longer ones would increase the radius of the swing.

rear steer is where it's at:flipoff2:

davido
02-13-2009, 12:03 AM
that thing looked sweet when it was new


now it looks sad :(

I thought the same thing until... holy ****, Scott was 15 just 6 years ago? :flipoff2: (pic 3)


Should be cool. Maybe I'll follow suit.





Nah. :) But maybe I WILL mount my 5 year old shocks.

J Cooper
02-13-2009, 01:30 AM
you can't even handle the power mine put's out.

thats all i saw

BMFScout
02-13-2009, 09:10 AM
I don't see why it has to better than mine, you can't even handle the power mine put's out. I'm going to start calling you Roller Scotts

Cyclone Scott is better.

redcagepatrol
03-10-2009, 08:15 AM
made a few cuts on the frame last night after cleaning the garage up a little more. Hopefully tonight I'll have the rear frame cut off.

We both received some annual bonus money + tax return so looks like I might be able to buy a few things now...

Busa - you were right - those Ballistic Fab bearing retainer plates are the same diameter as the bearing. Must be missing something, or they are just wrong...

redcagepatrol
03-10-2009, 10:33 PM
cut the back frame off, weighed in at about 120 pounds. Spare tire was 100 pounds.

I'll post some pics tomorrow or so. Need to order parts.

robertf03
03-10-2009, 10:56 PM
have you had it on a scale before?

eight
03-10-2009, 11:22 PM
It may not look good anymore, but it's still survived better than the other 2 rigs in the top pictures. What happened with Greg's toyota?

redcagepatrol
03-11-2009, 08:00 AM
Yes - It's been on a scale, probably posted in my old build thread. It was 3600#'s trail ready (gas, tools, spares, etc...)

Kolpecky - wrong thread... But Gregs Toyota was crushed, all good parts removed.

AggieTJ2007
03-11-2009, 04:17 PM
what did you use for the orginal uppers

redcagepatrol
03-11-2009, 04:22 PM
some schedule 40 pipe... I'll probably keep them after I put them in the press to straighten.

The ends are RE Johnny Joints

redcagepatrol
03-17-2009, 09:47 AM
Moser, Currie, or somebody else for the shafts? Any opinions?

Graystroke
03-17-2009, 10:56 AM
http://www.rovertracks.com/
you may call this guy. he seems reasonable on prices. i know he does a 9" hybrid axle so could probably get any axles you wanted.

Busa
03-17-2009, 11:20 AM
Scott call Dutchman and talk to them.

redcagepatrol
03-17-2009, 12:52 PM
I just have a hard time with their material and "stronger than stock" claim. I also don't see any warrentys posted etc... I'd rather pay a little more for some type of warrenty and a better material.

redcagepatrol
03-17-2009, 12:55 PM
I like this idea...
"In addition, Moser Engineering, Inc. will replace their 33, 35, & 40 spline axles for a period of ten (10) years after the original date of purchase if broken at the splined end due to excessive horsepower. However, 33 spline axles that were broken due to excessive horsepower will be replaced at the sole option of Moser Engineering, Inc., with 35 spline axles. In the event that 35 spline axles are broken due to excessive horsepower within ten (10) years of purchase, they will be replaced at the sole option of Moser Engineering, Inc., with 40 spline axles. If 40 spline axles are broken due to excessive horsepower, they will be replaced at the sole option of Moser Engineering, Inc with another set of 40 spline axles, free of charge."

Doug Krebs
03-17-2009, 01:13 PM
I like this idea...
"In addition, Moser Engineering, Inc. will replace their 33, 35, & 40 spline axles for a period of ten (10) years after the original date of purchase if broken at the splined end due to excessive horsepower. However, 33 spline axles that were broken due to excessive horsepower will be replaced at the sole option of Moser Engineering, Inc., with 35 spline axles. In the event that 35 spline axles are broken due to excessive horsepower within ten (10) years of purchase, they will be replaced at the sole option of Moser Engineering, Inc., with 40 spline axles. If 40 spline axles are broken due to excessive horsepower, they will be replaced at the sole option of Moser Engineering, Inc with another set of 40 spline axles, free of charge."

except that you have to get a different carrier each time?

redcagepatrol
03-17-2009, 01:37 PM
at least you have new shafts...

Fredo
03-17-2009, 02:20 PM
I read that as saying "excessive horsepower", not excessive gear reduction/tire size.

redcagepatrol
03-17-2009, 02:37 PM
granted - but it still makes me feel better to see some type of a warrenty...

DRAGOONRANCH
03-17-2009, 02:49 PM
I read that as saying that if you have 'excessive horsepower', they want to force you to upgrade so they don't have to keep replacing the shafts. Couldn't you have your carrier broached for the bigger splines?

redcagepatrol
03-17-2009, 02:55 PM
yes - with a Detroit you can just change out the side pieces.

Busa
03-17-2009, 02:56 PM
Moser has good stuff. They are just hard to deal with. I was going to get some from them but when i call to order they wonted so many detail that it make it a pain. So i went with someone that worked with me on getting everything need to make them.

redcagepatrol
03-17-2009, 10:45 PM
the pictures that I never posted

I ordered the TrueHi9, along with some new front gears and an actual locker for the front. Hopefully I'll order shafts tomorrow

DRAGOONRANCH
03-17-2009, 11:17 PM
would bobby longs 60 CV shafts not work (I really have no idea here, so don't flame me too bad)? I know he can make the inners a custom length at no extra cost.

AggieTJ2007
03-18-2009, 04:40 AM
dont think they would unless the rear axle was going to be rear steer

did you get a spool or a detroit for the rear

DRAGOONRANCH
03-18-2009, 06:28 AM
He's not gonna just refuse business. :D


http://www.longfieldsuperaxles.com/images/Dana60_CVjointsCopy.jpg

redcagepatrol
03-18-2009, 08:16 AM
I'm pretty sure they won't fit into the FJ-80 housing that I have tin the front - plus, I've never broken an FJ-80 Birfield...

The only thing that I've broken in the front axle is a stock short side shaft - and then I swapped everything to 4340 stuff. I guess I also broke the welds on the "lincoln" locker once too.

I'm having problems with the rear also, so I'm fixing that - once the problems migrate to the front axle, I will upgrade - and it probably will be the Birfields - but with D60 outers...

redcagepatrol
03-24-2009, 09:00 PM
some more parts came in:
True Hi 9
new front gears
new front Detroit

BTW - the pic of the Hi9 shows it sitting upside down...

AggieTJ2007
03-25-2009, 12:54 PM
what gears did you go with again, 5:38s?

Looks nice, I wish I would of had the coin for a hi-9

uglyota
03-25-2009, 01:06 PM
that is dead sexy

redcagepatrol
03-25-2009, 08:12 PM
what gears did you go with again, 5:38s?


yes

Graystroke
05-10-2009, 11:03 AM
http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/cto/1151018426.html

redcagepatrol
05-10-2009, 11:01 PM
man that's a nice Patrol! Makes me feel bad for tearing mine up so bad. I need to find another body - at least some front fenders to make mine look a little better

redcagepatrol
07-08-2009, 08:21 AM
I've got the axle built - brake brackets and all.

It's lined up under the Patrol, tacked in using some scrap at the right pinion angle.

I was in the process of makeing the lower link brackets when I found out that my 3/4" drill bit is slightly bent. I'll get a new bit today and then back to work - at least after I get back from New Orleans...

AggieTJ2007
07-08-2009, 07:22 PM
pictures damnit

TMatheaus
07-08-2009, 09:18 PM
let me look at work for a 3/4" bit, i'm pretty sure we have a couple and i can get you one

redcagepatrol
09-21-2009, 08:22 AM
rear axle mounts and links are done. Need to mount the air shocks now, doing a little research. I left the camera at home with some flex shots - but I'll post some crappy cell shots before test flex in a minute.

redcagepatrol
09-21-2009, 08:33 AM
Here are my crappy pics

uglyota
09-22-2009, 12:40 PM
looks sick! Heims at both ends of the lowers?

redcagepatrol
09-22-2009, 09:52 PM
looks sick! Heims at both ends of the lowers?

yep, it's been that way. I didn't change the lowers at all. Had to add ~2 inches to the uppers.

redcagepatrol
09-25-2009, 07:51 AM
some flex pixs so I could figure out where to mount the air shocks

uglyota
09-29-2009, 09:36 AM
siiiiiick....

redcagepatrol
10-09-2009, 02:37 PM
air shocks mounted - and flexed out

fully compressed
fully extended
flexed out
start of rear frame

redcagepatrol
10-09-2009, 02:38 PM
tying the rear tube frame to the cage

AggieTJ2007
10-09-2009, 04:31 PM
looks sweet

DRAGOONRANCH
10-09-2009, 11:50 PM
Yep, looks real clean. What are your plans for bumpstops back there?

AggieTJ2007
10-10-2009, 06:17 AM
air bumps?

tigweld
10-10-2009, 11:51 PM
for a slow speed crawler I bet he really doesn't need bumps with the rising rate of the airshock, as long as his shock mounts are up to it.

AggieTJ2007
10-11-2009, 09:03 AM
but what if he wants to go fast?

DRAGOONRANCH
10-11-2009, 09:17 AM
but what if he wants to get stupid?

and we all know how Scott likes to get stupid! :gigem:

davido
10-11-2009, 01:03 PM
Especially when he has a bulletproof rearend.

DRAGOONRANCH
10-11-2009, 01:23 PM
Especially when he has a bulletproof rearend.

:laughing: Nice!!!

tigweld
10-11-2009, 01:46 PM
unless he swapped that tired four popper there probably isn't any "fast" in that rigs future even then airshocks and air bumps seem kinda redundant they do the same thing.

8Runner
10-11-2009, 04:41 PM
I bottom mine out on the bumpstops every once in a while, and it really hurts the airshocks supposedly if you bottom them out...I say bumpstops are worth it.

redcagepatrol
10-11-2009, 09:57 PM
I'm going to run some poly bumps for full straight compression. There really wasn't a way to get the bumps to work for flex and a "jump" type of situation. I just tacked them in place tonight, now to tie the rest of the tube to them.

FYI:
at full compression (straight up) the distance to my frame tube was 12" at X location on the axle.
at full flex, the distance was 16" - a 4" difference! and it was at X-2" on the axle...

SO... I decided that if I put the bumps at 16" to stop the axle during flex, I would be limited in full uptravel and ended up putting the bumps at 12"

And while I dream of going fast - it will be a few years before I spend that kind of money...

tigweld
10-11-2009, 11:07 PM
I bottom mine out on the bumpstops every once in a while, and it really hurts the airshocks supposedly if you bottom them out...I say bumpstops are worth it.

add more oil if you are bottoming the shock out and don't want to raise the ride height

DRAGOONRANCH
10-12-2009, 12:37 AM
I'm going to run some poly bumps for full straight compression. There really wasn't a way to get the bumps to work for flex and a "jump" type of situation. I just tacked them in place tonight, now to tie the rest of the tube to them.

FYI:
at full compression (straight up) the distance to my frame tube was 12" at X location on the axle.
at full flex, the distance was 16" - a 4" difference! and it was at X-2" on the axle...

SO... I decided that if I put the bumps at 16" to stop the axle during flex, I would be limited in full uptravel and ended up putting the bumps at 12"

And while I dream of going fast - it will be a few years before I spend that kind of money...

The large 'gap' between the new tubing and the axle was why I asked. Can't wait to see more pictures. :beer:

redcagepatrol
10-16-2009, 07:50 AM
The large 'gap' between the new tubing and the axle was why I asked. Can't wait to see more pictures. :beer:

How is this

redcagepatrol
10-16-2009, 07:54 AM
and I tacked a frame together for the gas tank last night on the garage floor, proceeded to weld it up and then welded it to the chassis. I then tried to put the tank in and it's a little "off" and won't let the tank to slide all the way in...

I might be able to grind a little to fix that - or get the slege out - that might work also.

redcagepatrol
10-16-2009, 07:56 AM
the rear area is just big enough for a licence plate, I plan on oval lights on the curved corners.
Also - I plan on making a built in toolbox for recovery gear behind the rear axle below the floor level, should be cool!

redcagepatrol
10-16-2009, 08:01 AM
also - not sure if I should ask this on here or not but:
Is more bracing needed on my axle end upper link mounts? I thought about adding a crossbrace between the outer "tab" with the holes in it and the inner one but don't really see too much side to side forced on it that the bolt can't handle?

thoughts?

DRAGOONRANCH
10-16-2009, 08:40 AM
How is this

Hell yeah, super clean and functional as usual! I wouldn't expect any less. :beer:


also - not sure if I should ask this on here or not but:
Is more bracing needed on my axle end upper link mounts? I thought about adding a crossbrace between the outer "tab" with the holes in it and the inner one but don't really see too much side to side forced on it that the bolt can't handle?

thoughts?

Those brackets are pretty tall and only have the small difference in angle for sideways/lateral support. I would think just putting a filler plate inbetween the the front of the two innertabs would help a bunch.

(space reserved for picture)

redcagepatrol
10-16-2009, 08:43 AM
I would think just putting a filler plate inbetween the the front of the two innertabs would help a bunch.

(space reserved for picture)

I have that already, just never get a pic from the front side to show it.

DRAGOONRANCH
10-16-2009, 08:49 AM
I have that already, just never get a pic from the front side to show it.

Here is where I was talking about. Probably what you were talking about.

redcagepatrol
10-16-2009, 08:56 AM
yep - I have a little piece across the top to keep those together.

tigweld
10-16-2009, 09:03 AM
I bet for the speeds you'll be goin' it will be fine, but It would look much better if it had something across the back and it would be an opportunity to put more speed holes on it. I also think if you ever broke an upper link bolt or let the bolts get loose you could rip the outer tab at the speed holes being it has no support.

redcagepatrol
10-19-2009, 08:37 AM
I was able to work on it this weekend:
finished the gas tank mount, started truck - made sure it still ran...
made a "basket" for my tow strap and other recovery items behind the axle. It will have a hinged lid on top. Pulled the axle back off for final clean up and paint.

NEEDED for Clayton:
run brake lines (hard ones from center of axle out)
primer / paint
regear front axle
driveshaft, spare driveshaft
finish "basket" - I ran out of basket material...

WANTED before Clayton:
skins
lights
ice cheast mount
tool box mount
storage tray above fuel cell
redo front end (at least fenders)
put new winch on with new rope
bigger tires (need money...)
sliders
new paint (frame)
test run, tune shocks
new seats
lots of details

redcagepatrol
11-01-2009, 10:46 PM
axle off and primed.
ice chest mount almost done
rear "box" is done with hinged cover but need some sort of latch
light panel done (decided that I'm not going ever make it street legal)

I plan on mounting a toolbox on the other side of the rig like the ice chest. After that is done, time for paint and to put it back together.

Sharpe
11-01-2009, 11:02 PM
For latches, a boat shop like West Marine has all kinds of rubber loop type latches that are prety easy to adapt to most applications.

redcagepatrol
11-01-2009, 11:37 PM
For latches, a boat shop like West Marine has all kinds of rubber loop type latches that are prety easy to adapt to most applications.

or I might use the "truck tool box" type if I can find a small one.

TMatheaus
11-02-2009, 07:50 AM
that is a pretty small ice chest and holder

DRAGOONRANCH
11-02-2009, 08:33 AM
He doesn't need a big one anymore. He can put the big one in Lynda's Jeep and just restock once in a while. Unless we raid hers first and drink him dry. :D

redcagepatrol
11-02-2009, 08:51 AM
that thing will hold a case of beer... where there are only two seats on the rig, that should cover it...

Lynda
11-02-2009, 09:10 AM
He doesn't need a big one anymore. He can put the big one in Lynda's Jeep and just restock once in a while. Unless we raid hers first and drink him dry. :D

Okay, but only until March, then you'll get you're butt kicked if you reach for my cerveza ;)

mudtoy67
11-02-2009, 09:31 AM
Okay, but only until March, then you'll get you're butt kicked if you reach for my cerveza ;)

He's a big 'ol boy....you better bring a sack lunch.:D

DRAGOONRANCH
11-02-2009, 09:46 AM
He's a big 'ol boy....you better bring a sack lunch.:D

Yep, I'll steal your beer then eat your lunch too! BTW, I like mustard and miracle whip and hold the tomatos. :D

uglyota
11-02-2009, 11:09 AM
You got a nice rear end...

Not worried about visibility with the tire upright like that?

redcagepatrol
11-02-2009, 11:22 AM
I am - that is just temporary till I get bigger / better tires... I'm just doing to strap my spare in with a ratchet for the tire being - especially for places like Clayton. For places like Spring Creek I won't carry one.

uglyota
11-02-2009, 11:31 AM
For places like Spring Creek I won't carry one.
or 47, right? :D

redcagepatrol
11-02-2009, 11:34 AM
or 47, right? :D

riiiiight - i never tear tires in those places.... hmmm:rolleyes:

Seth
11-02-2009, 10:08 PM
deja vu?

AggieTJ2007
11-02-2009, 10:10 PM
looks sweet maybe one of these days I will cut off the back of the jeep

DRAGOONRANCH
11-02-2009, 10:15 PM
looks sweet maybe one of these days the back of the jeep will fall off

yep :gigem:

uglyota
06-14-2010, 10:31 AM
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=502277

redcagepatrol
06-14-2010, 10:39 AM
hmm, interesting...

redcagepatrol
01-03-2011, 06:26 PM
OK - time for a new engine. It needs to be better than Lynda's (a 2000 5.3). I want to spend the least amount of cash possible and I'm thinking a truck 6.0 will be slightly better than the 5.3 and not cost as much as an AL LS engine (and I can find 6.0's).

I looked this weekend in the junkyards and was only able to find two options so far:
1) $1200 for a 2004 with 116,000 miles w/ computor and harness - NO alt, AC, or Starter

2) $1850 for a 2005, still in truck, not sure on miles. Complete with alt and AC compressor.

So - from O-Riellys, an alternator is $150+25 core and AC is $300 - which brings option one up to $1675. I would buy this at the junkyard too and save some money.

Anyone have any leads on a cheaper one? The accesories make the difference so make sure you specify complete with accesories, harness, and computor..

I found several without the harness for $1000 or less, but those are worthless to me. Some places charge a core charge also.

Fredo
01-03-2011, 08:26 PM
Just buy a 5.3 and call it a day. It's cheap, and they work good. If you can't live with your wife having as big of an engine as you, slap a cam in it, or a blower on it....or both.

FJAggie07
01-03-2011, 08:42 PM
OK - time for a new engine. It needs to be better than Lynda's (a 2000 5.3). I want to spend the least amount of cash possible and I'm thinking a truck 6.0 will be slightly better than the 5.3 and not cost as much as an AL LS engine (and I can find 6.0's).

I looked this weekend in the junkyards and was only able to find two options so far:
1) $1200 for a 2004 with 116,000 miles w/ computor and harness - NO alt, AC, or Starter

2) $1850 for a 2005, still in truck, not sure on miles. Complete with alt and AC compressor.

So - from O-Riellys, an alternator is $150+25 core and AC is $300 - which brings option one up to $1675. I would buy this at the junkyard too and save some money.

Anyone have any leads on a cheaper one? The accesories make the difference so make sure you specify complete with accesories, harness, and computor..

I found several without the harness for $1000 or less, but those are worthless to me. Some places charge a core charge also.

:(

My wife's car has more horsepower then any of my vehicles. You just made me realize this, thanks...

AggieTJ2007
01-03-2011, 09:34 PM
Just buy a 5.3 and call it a day. It's cheap, and they work good. If you can't live with your wife having as big of an engine as you, slap a cam in it, or a blower on it....or both.

yeah more on what does it take to get a 5.3 to 475 to 500 hp

redcagepatrol
01-03-2011, 09:36 PM
Just buy a 5.3 and call it a day. It's cheap, and they work good. If you can't live with your wife having as big of an engine as you, slap a cam in it, or a blower on it....or both.

I might do that - stock power between the two engines are the same, the 6.0 adds a bunch more with programming though (and has more torque). I'll have to look at the price delta and see if that's worth a little more power - and being able to say that it's a 6.0 rather than a 5.3...:D

robertf03
01-03-2011, 09:39 PM
I'll have to look at the price delta

woah, had to get out the thesaurus on that one :flipoff2:

RCcola55
01-03-2011, 11:28 PM
Just buy a 5.3 and call it a day. It's cheap, and they work good. If you can't live with your wife having as big of an engine as you, slap a cam in it, or a blower on it....or both.

this^

just call Traci at FIS and ask her what a good combo for a cheap 5.3 build would be

eight
01-03-2011, 11:29 PM
Toyota makes V8s now, they're smaller but will whip the chevy's ass.

mudtoy67
01-04-2011, 08:22 AM
GM SC 3800 V6. I'll make you a good deal.:gigem:

Sharpe
01-07-2011, 10:00 AM
Dont be a *****...8.1! :flipoff2:

redcagepatrol
01-17-2011, 12:24 PM
Got the drivetrain out last night. At a junkyard in Holland TX right now picking up a 2002 Escalade 6.0... It was only $200 more than the truck 6.0's and makes 345 hp rather than 300. Higher compression ratio and flat top pistons on the Escalade engines!

DRAGOONRANCH
01-17-2011, 01:29 PM
The old (which is for sale I believe)

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f192/DRAGOONRANCH/TAMOR/Schubring/167899_1516676368628_1586061810_311.jpg

And da noob!
,
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f192/DRAGOONRANCH/TAMOR/Schubring/166666_1517372826039_1586061810_311.jpg

eight
01-18-2011, 12:29 AM
Wow, about 6 times the power the patrol used to make, should be fun.

So what's the plan as far as transmission and transfer case? 3 speed stak since it's better than Lynda's?

redcagepatrol
01-18-2011, 01:32 AM
4L60E tranny and either an Atlas or Stak case. I don't need anything 3sp with an auto...

redcagepatrol
01-18-2011, 01:35 AM
I cleaned up the engine today (removed harness, hoses, stuff I won't use, and degreased several times) after I got home, pulled a valve cover and took a peak - all looks good!

Now i just need a tranny and t-case to start mocking things up.

davido
01-18-2011, 02:10 AM
Sweet!

colman
01-18-2011, 11:13 AM
shiney.....

RCcola55
01-18-2011, 05:37 PM
who is gonna do the harness and tune?

redcagepatrol
01-18-2011, 05:44 PM
Not me! Harness by FIS and program by FlemCo?

robertf03
01-18-2011, 06:44 PM
send everything to fis

i don't know how to do new stuff and all my tuning stuff is in moving boxes

redcagepatrol
01-18-2011, 07:56 PM
That's what I did with Lynda's and is what I was going to do here too. I've considered other out of state companies to avoid the sales tax.

AggieTJ2007
01-18-2011, 07:59 PM
Ed could send you the EFI live and for the $100 vin license you could tune the computer yourself.

redcagepatrol
01-18-2011, 10:18 PM
so - some are curious as to what that engine cost - I'm going to keep track of my costs on this project and let everyone know the total bill.

any guesses?

The engine was $1400 plus tax. I also picked up a AFM for $50, my bill was a little under $1500 with tax.

The engine included the AC, Alternator, PS (typical), Starter, harness, and ECM. (the AC comp run $400 at the part store, the Alts run $150, starters are like $200)

$1500 engine
$200 tranny + ? adapter and upgrades
$2300 t-case
$400 radiator
$200 air filter and small pully
$200 Spal fans
$200 fuel pump and filter
$800 harness and ECM redo
$300 F-body oil pan conversion
$200 AN fittings for fuel
$200 new gas tank?
$150 oil for eng, tranny, t-case
$400 driveshaft mods and parts

So - as you can see - this will add up pretty quick - I'll tally it up when I'm done so everyone understands what it takes to do this kind of swap.

eight
01-18-2011, 11:56 PM
What's a small pulley? I wouldn't do any accessory underdrive stuff if that's what it is. We spend too much time at idle, keep it spinning fast.

Why you need a new gas tank? Just worried it isn't big enough?

redcagepatrol
01-19-2011, 08:11 AM
The small idler pulley is needed to fit the air filter directly onto the throttle body. I don't need a new tank - mine is just modified by droping the stock Toyota pump into it. There is a 5" hole cut out of the top...

mudtoy67
01-19-2011, 08:54 AM
Did I see something on FB about replacing the rear axle and 4 link? Was that just old pics of the high 9 swap?

redcagepatrol
01-19-2011, 08:59 AM
Did I see something on FB about replacing the rear axle and 4 link? Was that just old pics of the high 9 swap?

that's old pics of the high 9 swap. I need to call this Phase III but I don't want to start a new thread...

AggieTJ2007
02-03-2011, 07:09 PM
what are you going to do about the electronic throttle body?

redcagepatrol
02-03-2011, 11:25 PM
I was planning on getting a pedal and using it. What do others prefer? Bad idea? I hate running throttle cables... Wire is so much easier!

Sharpe
02-04-2011, 08:53 AM
I have been perfectly happy with the electronic pedal on Pigpen. Cutting and welding the arm will probably take some trial and error though. I would just get a brand new one from the dealership. The one I got from Doggets was only like $10 cheaper than a new one.

mudtoy67
02-04-2011, 10:04 AM
I guess the only problem I remember was when your battery or alternator took a crap and you couldn't do anything but idle...

redcagepatrol
05-23-2011, 12:27 PM
for the New buggy Patrol build, should I go with a 4.3 Atlas or a 3.8? The tranny is a 4L60E, 39's and 5.13's in the axles

robertf03
05-23-2011, 12:40 PM
I'd go 3.8. Do they make something higher than that? I think you'll be shifting to high range a lot with an auto and 5.13s

redcagepatrol
05-23-2011, 02:18 PM
they make a 3.0 also - man, I need to re-subscribe to these threads or something, I'm not getting the emails...

tigweld
05-23-2011, 02:19 PM
3.8 if you dont have room for a 4 speed

redcagepatrol
05-23-2011, 03:46 PM
I ordered the 3.8 ratio

eight
05-23-2011, 11:36 PM
Random idea, can you have the idle speed dropped to 600 rpm or so?

DRAGOONRANCH
05-23-2011, 11:48 PM
I ordered the 3.8 ratio

That's what I have in the back of the 4speed. It is a good ratio break, not too big, not to small.

AggieTJ2007
05-26-2011, 04:10 PM
Random idea, can you have the idle speed dropped to 600 rpm or so?

they should be able to set the idle wherever he would like them too