Tbi

[J Cooper]

progress

[J Cooper]

bad place for an electric fuel pump? it says it has to be below the gas tank but i have this huge as 22 gallon and dont wanna put it in the back seat so this is as low as i can get it? its a holley so it pushes fuel not suck.... any problems ?

[J Cooper]

wiring

[bburris]

Can you find a place on the inside of the frame rail for it? I have no idea what works for fuel pumps and whatnot, but it seems like it would get a lot of crap thrown on it sitting right next to your tire - and if you ever have a blowout there might be a pretty explosion to witness from a distance...:flipoff2:

[J Cooper]

yeah, but it says in the destructions to mount below the tank, and my frame rail is like near the top if it, i dont know if the pump would work like that, but i do agree on all that stuff though... unless anyone has a 15 gallon tank laying around?

[J Cooper]

rail

[J Cooper]

maybe right there on the left, on the inner from, see how much higher?

[J Cooper]

so its cool to put it on the rail next to it then?

[Jackasic]

PM mark about the pump. I would mount it on the inside of the frail rail. Also, mount your computor up higher, above a potential water line, say high in the dash of glove box.

[mark]

The best place for the pump is in the tank. I've done two in tank pump setups on stock (ish) CJ tanks. Yours is low pressure, so it would be easy, but the pump you have probably won't work in tank.

Here's how you do it:

Buy a pump for a 92-95 Chevy P/U with filter
Buy some high pressure rubber EFI fuel line and EFI hose clamps
Drop the fuel tank
Pull the sender
Measure from the top of the tank to the bottom.
Measure the length of the new pump with filter attached
Shorten the fuel pickup on the stock sender by cutting it off so that if you attached the pump to the shortened pickup with a 3” piece of rubber fuel line, the filter would just sit off of the floor of the tank. You don't have to be too precise, because you can make up any difference by using a longer or shorter rubber fuel line.
Double flare the end of the shortened fuel pickup.
Assemble the pump, rubber fuel line and sender with fuel line clamps, adjusting the over all length to the tank's depth.
Wire the pump by grounding it to the bottom of the cover portion of the sender (there are tabs that will accept female spade connectors).
Drill a hole through the sender cover for the power wire for the pump. This should be large enough to accommodate a grommet with the wire.
Run the wires to the pump. The negative wire runs from the pump to the inside of the sender cover. The positive wire will run through the pump cover and grommet and should terminate in one side of either a Weather Pak connector or a two-wire trailer connector. On the outside of the tank cover you should have or may need to attach a ground, which should attach to the other side of the connector. This connector simply makes it easier to drop the tank in the future. Use a dab of RTV on the grommet and wire to seal things up completely. From here the positive wiring goes into your Holley harness and up to the computer, preferably through a relay. The negative attaches to the frame.
I’ve done this twice and replaced all the rubber lines from the pump to the throttle body with high pressure EFI line and EFI fuel clamps (they have a screw and nut rather than a worm gear).
I believe that RJ has pictures of the job we did on his fuel pump. PM him and get him to post them.
-Mark

[J Cooper]

thanks but its a Holley not a Howell, its digital controled and can only use the one pump sense in plugs right into the computer with no other power or grounds. im just gonna put in on the frame

[mark]

Your too quick on the reply. I just noticed my mistake and corrected it but it all remains the same.

-Mark

[mark]

BTW, how many wires are running to the pump within the connector?

[J Cooper]

i think 4

[mark]

Is there a fuel return line from the throttle body?

[J Cooper]

yeah

[mark]

From your description, it sounds like Holley made the fuel pump setup needlessly complicated. I have no idea why you would need four wires to the fuel pump. There is nothing "digital" about a fuel pump and no need for anything more than power and ground (although they may have simply doubled up the power and ground wires.) I am inquiring about all this because I am condidering a similar setup when it comes time for a V8.

-Mark

[J Cooper]

ill go check again, ive heard its a real good set up, it just says in big bold letters that it has to be mounted below the fuel tank because it pushes and does not suck. the only thing below my tank is my axles. it says it is gravity fed and that is the reason is says to do this. it has a wiring harness the plugs into and goes to the computer.... i guess to regulate fuel flow into the TBI, everything is adjusted on the computer... i dont know... only problem ive seen with it so far is the pump. but im sure a jeep is the only vehicle that would have this problem :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

[mark]

All electric fuel pumps work better pushing than pulling. But they can pull to some extent. The big problem is getting the thing to prime. You can imagine how tough it would be to get the pump to prime if it were at a high point in the fuel ine. That combined with heat can give you a wicked case of vapor lock.

To keep that to a minimum, it has to be lower than the top of the fuel pickup. The idea is to have any remaining fuel in the line pool at the pump, not just drain back into the tank. This is why most vehicles have at least one pump in the tank. The pump will never loose prime because it is partially submerged and as a bonus, the fuel keeps the pump cool.

-Mark

[J Cooper]

so what do you think i should do with it? get another tank? where its at on the frame rail now, there is about 4" to the top of the tank

[mark]

I think it will be fine. After all, they have sold millions of those kits. The pump just looks vunerable to trail damage. Usually the pump ends up on the inside of one of the frame rails near the tank. But that's a bit high. Greg's jeep has an earlier projection setup (or used to) and the fuel pump was on the outside of the right frame rail. It was well armored though. It also had a little resivoir next to it as I recall. I don't think he had any issues with the pump.

-Mark

[stinger7401]

my pump is off of an 80's model ford. It is mounted on the crossmember that is just in front of the tank. I haven't had a problem with it yet, I think they recomend mounting it below the tank due to the fact that the pump is a pusher and not a puller. They prolly just didnt want you to mount it somewhere near the engine that way its not pulling the entire length of the vehicle.

[J Cooper]

well i put in on the frame, so i should put it back on the tank?

[mark]

Leave it on the frame. Here's why:

TAMOR Wrenching Rule #1:
Once you've installed something, if it works at all, its perfect.

-Mark

[J Cooper]

ok damnit, what the ****.... everything is hooked up the way it is suppost to, all wiring, fuel lines, and pump.... turn the key, injectors fire, pump does nothing, check the wires all good.... nothing.... take it off and put ground and power to it... turns on.. hook it back up and not a damn thing.... check the power coming through the harness and a bunch of wack signals, what the ****...
if anyone has any ideas, suggestions... please let me know, i need this damn thing running like yesterday... i cant miss anymore school, if its not working by the end of the week im trading it in for a bike.
ill be here all day tomorrow if anyone can think of anything

[bburris]

don't you have to prime external fuel pumps or something?

[J Cooper]

thats what i thought but in the instructions it just says turn key to on and let pump prime. so i dont know, the pump does work though and the wires are getting power to it. .... but shouldnt the power still kick on.

[aggielr]

through the hot wire, we're gettin 12 volts with a direct ground through the frame, with the ground and hot wire both from the plug connecting the pump, the voltage jumps around randomly
when a direct sourse is hooked to the pump it runs, so it's good, and the grounds in the wiring harness are good because there is 0 resistance between them and the battery ground

could this possibly be a bad ecu or should we try hooking the ground directly to the frame at the pump?

[stinger7401]

I'd try grounding it to the frame and see what happens. The 12v feed is only hot during key on or run right? If it is i would most definately ground it to the frame. It would also be good to trace the ground in the harness and see where it goes or call Holley and ask them.

[J Cooper]

i emailed holley at fuelpumps@holley.com and told them the situation, so waiting for the reply... yeah it only turns on when the key is at run or crank so i dont see why it would hurt it. the red wire(hot wire) is the one that sends the signal to turn on and off im assuming so making a ground doesnt change the performence..... and sorry mark yes it is 2 wires not 4.... im a retard. i guess ill try it out when i get home from school.

[mark]

Is there a relay between the ECU and pump? If thwere isn't the problem may be that you are trying to draw too much current through the ECU. I suspect that there is supped to be a relay in that circut. If the relay is hooked up wrong or is defective, there's your problem. Other than that, I suspect that either the ECU is screwed, or the wiring is messed up and hooked to the wrong pin on the ECU.

-Mark

[J Cooper]

there is a relay between the battery and ECU but not on the actually pump wires. the one relay is has works fine, you can hear the injectors fire when the key is turned, and it sprayed the little fuel it did have left in the lines. a new ECU is $300 so i really hope thats not it. ill check to make sure the wires are the same on both sides of the connector and try that grounding the pump... if not, i dont know, i cant afford any more crap right now

[J Cooper]

ill be putting a sheet over it soon and getting this

[J Cooper]

**** holley **** **** **** crap. ive had it, **** it

[crawlingno5]

someone needs a beer, maybe a couple

[J Cooper]

or stronger... im all over it

[J Cooper]

ok now that i calmed down, heres the problem. when the key is turned to "run" the fuel pump turns on...good... and the passenger side injector starts firing....bad... when the key is turned to "crank" it starts up... good... the passenger injector fires.... good... and the drivers doesnt.... bad. what the ****, i talked to the guy i bought it from on the phone and he's posting it up on pirate and im about to give holley a call. im gonna go switch the injectors and see if it is bad injectors or if it is an electrical problem with information being sent... trouble shooting says if it fires at crank, its a leaky injector or bad ground. if it doesnt fire, its a bad injector, ground or ECU... anyone notice a pattern with the bad grounds. any info or thoughts ?

[J Cooper]

final verdict:
1. I am not an idiot, i dont have to scrape my sticker off and buy a civic
2. After a confrence call with holley and the guy I bought the system from learned that it had been in his garage for a year and a friend "gave" it to him
3. The **** head sold me a bad computer and now has to pay up $300 for a new one out of the $535 i payed him

:flipoff2:good **** :flipoff2:

[J Cooper]

does anybody else have the 670 cfm unit in there vehicle? one that i could do a quick computer swap on.... the dip **** wants to "make sure" thats hes a tool before he buys anything.

[stinger7401]

you might want to talk to Higgs, he's the only one i know of that has the holly system.

[J Cooper]

he ordered me a new computer but it wont be here until next weds :flipoff2: so that will make it 3 weeks without a vehicle :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

[crawlingno5]

hensel has you beat. hes going on 2 months i believe.

[J Cooper]

dont forget my other 2 weeks when i was rebuilding the carb and it desided to leak all over and not want to work.. but you 2 months sucks.... actually im about to go out side and take all that **** of and hook back up my carb, i dont think its gonna be at least next thurs before i can hook up the computer and tune it up, so i might just go run with a leaky carb for a bit longer. only thing is the electric fuel pump is hooked to the wiring harness, so i would have to hook it back up to the manual pump, unless i can just run a ground and a switched power right up to it?

[J Cooper]

IT RUNS!! the carb is back on *** set my self back two weeks but **** it :flipoff2:

[mark]

You don't want to run that electric fuel pump with the carb. The electric pump runs at 12-15psi while the mechanical one runs at a fraction of that depending on engine speed. Needless to say the electric one will overwhelm the carb turing it from a leaker into a full fledged fountain.

-Mark

[J Cooper]

no i unhooked that too

[J Cooper]

ok it RUNS for real this time, hooked up the new computer and it turned right on. ****ing sweet. i mounted the ECU in the glove box and the fuel pump on the inner frame rail, ive been messing with it, just gotta take the time and get it all tuned up perfect.... if thats possible. so far it all runs good, just trying to figure out the accel on it. Not really worried though right now, it starts right up and drives, cant be too picky

[robertf03]

congrats. hows the power compared to the old carb?

[fbronco86]

Did you seal the wires are the firewall? Water and computer dont mix well. Also its a good idea to mount the computer so that the wires run up into the computer. So that water does run down the wires into the computer. Also its a good idea to put a bend in the wires right after they come threw the firewall.

[J Cooper]

havent sealed it off yet, need to find something to use, dont know about running it up or down or side ways or anything, its at the highest point i could find and thats the same level as the engine.
tuning it up it a bitch :flipoff2: if anyone knows someone that knows how to tune this bitch up good let me know. it runs great while its running, but if you come to a stop and try to take off it boggs down really bad, or just cuts off... i think it has something to do with setting the main... in the destructions is says to rev it up to 3000 and then adjust the main to the highest rmp, well my max rpm is at 3000, so not really sure how to do that unless i pay for the closed loop kit with the rich lean lights on it, witch i heard is really worth it... any suggestions?
other than that its pretty sweet, just need to tune the bitch up. :mad:

[robertf03]

maybe treat it like a carb? vacuum gauge and adjust it till you get the most vacuum with the leanest conditions.

[J Cooper]

ok after almost killing my self and stalling in every major intersection in college station,.... and working on the system for 4 hours in the parking lot of harvey washbangers. it works.... for real this time... and yes it is ****ing sweet, awesome throttle response, smooth as **** ride and lots of power, i went around a corner and hit it and the back tire came off the ground. so yeah its worth it for who ever might be thinking about it.. just take the time to tune it up and make sure holley gives you the RIGHT ****ING BOLTS!!!!!!!!
thanks to Landon and Nick Siriani Automotives mobile auto repair unit, its all good and ready to go get some groceries :flipoff2:

[J Cooper]

i posted these on flems thread but im bored so im adding it to my "engine de-ghettofication" project.
first off, the 85' I6 harness was still in my 78' 304, dont ask me how but it did, the distributor only had 2 of 3 wires leading to the ICM, every wire that had to do with ignition (alternator, silinoid, tach, power, distributor, blah blah blah) all had at least 3 splices into each wire, there were open wires all over the place, funk growing on ****, wires spliced into any think and everything, the alternator was all jacked in side, the distributor was not grounded. more and more and more, lets just say ive been pulling wires since i got the bitch. heres some progress pics.

about a year ago.

[J Cooper]

wires pulled out at nicks house during the grand theft auto insident

[J Cooper]

engine last week

[J Cooper]

under dash.... after being cleaned up already

[J Cooper]

about an hour later

[J Cooper]

well i got it running at mason again, not very good but running, and when i got home it was running rich as ****, i took off the return line and it sprayed out fuel, my gas tank was pinching off both lines... (this is from when i had my fire during christmas that fat **** in la grange dropped my tank to replace the lines and obviously put the tank back wrong... this would explain why my old carb was leaking everywhere after christmas and never worked right since, oh well a **** load of money and a ****ed semester later....) so i had to drop the tank and turn the sending unit, then the adjustment for the fuel pressure was stuck, im sure it was pushing out at like 16 psi when it was suppost to be at 12 plus all the back pressure from the lines, im sure it was alot more that that.so had to take the fuel regulator/accel pump off and it spayed fuel out like a mother, then noticed that the housing was cracked, it starts right up like a new car now, but was still running rich, so we started tuning from the begining and found out my TPS is a piece of **** and now have to get a new one... what the ****!!
oh well
all for now

[J Cooper]

feels like im talking to my self on this tread but **** it... the heep works and works good now... my brothers projection however took a big dump and is being replaced with a good old carb... mine however is running pretty sweet.

[bburris]

congratulations...glad to hear that you finally got all the bugs worked out

[J Cooper]

thanks brett someone cares for all my hard work... i should be down in CC pretty soon, hit the beach and seapines

[Seth]

not talking to yourself - look how many views it has....

seth

[Shaggy]

yup... by the way now that you have a vehicle you gonna get that app. I need to know soon because we are about to get some new people

[J Cooper]

yep yep yep, ill get it in the morning on the way to the bar b q and give it to you there..... we are having the bar b q still right?....................

[Shaggy]

yup