PDA

View Full Version : Steering arms D44/10B



Chadnutz
04-24-2002, 02:35 PM
Any objections to tacing the arms to the knuckle to prevent any
wobbling that might occur? Anything I should know while designing the shape of the arms? They are drilled and the knuckle is tapped.

Nutz

StevenAg03
04-24-2002, 02:56 PM
dont ever tack the steering arms on....the three bolts that hold them on in combination with the cone washers will not allow the arms to move...unless of course you dont do it right...

Krawler68
04-24-2002, 03:10 PM
bewsides the stuff steven stated it is nearly impossible to tac the cast knuckle to the machined raw steel arm... just bolt it on and go...

Chadnutz
04-24-2002, 05:26 PM
It will cost me $90 and two trips to Caldwell to have the holes drilled out in the cone shape. Apparently I need a 30 degree included chamfer tool that is VERY hard to find. I've called every machine shop and tool supply place in town, researched all the tool books at work, and searched the internet. This guy in Caldwall quoted $90 for 6 holes. Is it worth it?

robertf03
04-24-2002, 05:30 PM
the bit costs about 70 bucks, so if you pay 90 your getting the shaft. I'll ask the guy who is makin mine where he got the bit, but I don't think he had any trouble finding it

Krawler68
04-24-2002, 05:34 PM
why don't you just order the right shiat from Bob Roggy or WMS? it's only about 150 for a damn steering arm...and it'll be proven, not nutz engineered...

robertf03
04-24-2002, 05:45 PM
doug thats 150 an arm for a roggy one. he's proud of his stuff. I'd go homemade if you can swing it, just make sure you do it right and don't weld the damn thing on, haha.

AgDieseler
04-24-2002, 06:14 PM
It's on the expensive side, but Off Road Design has an arm too.

Steering arm: This is the arm that attaches to the steering knuckle on the axle. It uses factory type studs, cone adapters and locknuts to bolt to the knuckle. The D44 install kit is available as an option as shown below.
Arm Part #: U9010
Arm Price: $150.00
Install kit part #: U9011
Install kit price: $35.00

They have good quality products as well as great service. Doug and I have a number of their products installed, and it's been okay so far.

aggielr
04-24-2002, 06:53 PM
when i do mine this summer, i'm probably goin to order mine from either ORD or Roggy, but i have seen some on the POR board that look good, and the guys have said they work well, might see if any of them would make them for ya for a small fee

BMFScout
04-24-2002, 09:44 PM
I don't know what you guys have against the avalanche arms, but they were 98 apiece, that is the cheapest I found, and they are pretty badass as far as I am concerned, use tie rod ends, and have the correction in the end so they don't bind up. I thought they were a pretty good deal, and are pretty overbuilt, but I guess time will tell. I too would have liked the pride in building my own, but it just wasn't worth the hassle IMO, and I really didn't have access to the equipment to build them right.

Krawler68
04-25-2002, 08:27 AM
From everything I've heard the Avalanche arms are pretty weak for steering arms. They use 1" cold rolled bar stock for the arm but knock alot of the material off for the arm. the stock Chevy arms supposedly measure 1 1/4" thick. Not really good if you ask me... add a spacer and the shear on the little 1/2" bolts is more than i'd want to bet my life on. I've included some pictures to show how it will fail...

Krawler68
04-25-2002, 08:27 AM
and it was twisted too

Krawler68
04-25-2002, 08:30 AM
one last one

AgDieseler
04-25-2002, 09:22 AM
I think that is a taper that has been milled rather than twisted.

Krawler68
04-25-2002, 09:28 AM
I'm not sure what you're saying, but it was a flat arm originally... that is a definite bent arm... it's off a thread on POR...

Chadnutz
04-25-2002, 10:15 AM
Right now I have two big rectangles that are longer and wider than the arm will need to be. There are 1.25" think all the way through. I can cut them to any shape I want, and Im using heim joints so I don't need that little slanted taper thing...

Comments?
Nutz

Fredo
04-25-2002, 11:14 AM
Originally posted by Krawler68
I'm not sure what you're saying, but it was a flat arm originally... that is a definite bent arm... it's off a thread on POR...

Well, that was either an old design, or it is their arm that is designed to use spherical rod ends because the ones we got to put on Jimmy's Scout look a chitload beefier than those. Also, by looking at that picture, no matter what he was using, it looked like whatever stress he put it under was going to break even the stock components. Oh, and by the way, those studs aren't 1/2 inch studs...they are 9/16 fine thread studs, just like what the chevy's use from the factory.

Krawler68
04-25-2002, 11:48 AM
this arm didn't even use studs...it used reamed knuckles and 1/2 bolts or something in the bolt family at least.
Those are the avalanche arms I've seen several times... I haven't seen y'alls got any pics or measurements?

BMFScout
04-25-2002, 01:14 PM
I think my arms are probabaly the same, but they use tre's. I just went and read the painfully long post on POR. This ****hole was using 1/2 in. bolts and nuts where he should have been using 9/16 studs, conical washers and nuts, spacers that the holes were too big in, heim joints that I would bet money on were binding because of the lack of misalignment washers. I will confess that the area where the tre mounts is a little thin, but I think it almost has to be to get a tre to function properly, am I wrong? Mine may do the exact same thing farther down the line, but I feel there were some extenuating circumstances in this guys case. I guess clifton is an owner or something, he posted on there that he told the guy not to run it like that, and he did anyway. BBS can be really bad for business when one guy trashes a business and a handful of bad experiences chime in scaring others away. I didn't have the best experience with Avalanche either it took them three tries to get me the right jam nut, but they made it good, and in time. If mine break then you guys can say I told you so, but for the price I am willing to see how they work. I have only been on one trip to moab, but have put many road miles on them, only time will tell I guess...

Krawler68
04-25-2002, 02:46 PM
that's a positive attitude to have...i just wanted to see if you knew about that drama? Misalignment washers are VERY important... I don't even know hoe heims work without them... I hope the arms work well for you...it's a good idea...i was just gonna play the devil's advocate for a while.

Chadnutz
04-25-2002, 04:19 PM
I read some stuff on the AE web page and it looks like I'd be better off just using something that was professionally designed. As I think Doug said, steering is life or death. I'm on the highway every day, but even worse than that I could lose control and hit a jogger going 30 mph in a neighborhood road. I couldn't live with the guilt. Steering isn't something to mess with. I'll just fork over the $100 per side and the $160 per link for tie rod and drag link. I'm going to use heims. Thay have spacers to keep the joints from binding. I would have to spend $90 on my homemade arms just to get the conical holes drilled. I know this is a costly and time consuming project. I'm not in a hurry, and as I have stated before, I am not going to cut corners with time or money. Attention to the slightest detail is more important to me. My only worry ss that after I over a grand on this axle, I don't end up putting it on...

Axle - $240 - PAID
Replace worn parts - ~$125 - PAID
Shafts - $255 - PAID
Gears - $170
Install Kit - $95
Detroit - $580
Steering Arms - $240
Steering Linkage - $320
Knuckle Machining - couple of cases of beer - PAID

And more...Scary isn't it. :(
Thats 2 grand alone. You know it's going to cost more.
The question is how to get this all done and still be debt free.
At least I'll be getting a definate $9/hour starting in the summer.
$2000/9 = ~230 solid hours of work. I'll never do the swap....

Fredo
04-25-2002, 08:17 PM
Man, for that kind of money, you could have sold your mazda and bought a decent truck with a solid front axle already under it.

Chadnutz
04-25-2002, 09:15 PM
I wouldn't get what my truck is worth to me, and buying something better would involve having all of that money at once. It's a lot of money to put into a D44/10 Bolt, but oh well. I'm sure I'll get flamed for the very fact that 2 grand is going into a D44, but it's the damn locker and I don't want to lincoln lock it. My truck has a rebuilt motor and runs flawless. The a/c is great and it looks good, however, there are dents and scratches, I have an oil leak, manual only electric fans, screwed up vacuum lock system, and a body lift.... Wouldn't get 3k for it I bet. To me it is worth way more than that to have a good looking reliable piece of transportation. (good looking is my opinion, I don't care what any of you think) And it is sad when you have to state such disclaimers on a board that only your "friends" reply to.

StevenAg03
04-25-2002, 10:25 PM
why cant you use normal steering for the time being???

Chadnutz
04-26-2002, 02:50 AM
chevy box swings front to back, mine side to side.

one more thing,

i cant find 9/16 studs anywhere. ideas?

StevenAg03
04-26-2002, 10:17 AM
i am pretty sure that brune had to send off for his 9/16 studs

Fredo
04-26-2002, 10:27 AM
Well, originally, they were supposed to come with the knuckles we got, but the guy forgot to ship them with it, so I tried to find some around town.....didn't find any, so that guy fast tracked them to us. I think you're probably going to have to order them in.

Krawler68
04-26-2002, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by Chadnutz
chevy box swings front to back, mine side to side.

one more thing,

i cant find 9/16 studs anywhere. ideas?

you can make your box work if it swing left to right... hell my EB box is like that...I think MOST Saginaw boxes are. You can just attach the drag link straight to the pitman arm istead of all that goofy bent arm bull****.

davido
04-29-2002, 11:29 PM
Originally posted by Krawler68
... add a spacer and the shear on the little 1/2" bolts is more than i'd want to bet my life on. I've included some pictures to show how it will fail...

I doubt this would happen at speed though (ie. not life threatening). Giving that this wasn't just a bad apple or bad bolts, someone was REALLY tweaking on it to shear them off.

Guessing (going out on a limb): Chances are the guy was sitting still with the bigass tires wedged. Then he gets the wise *** idea to see if that rock ram is strong enough to move the CJ sized boulders. Then what happens.... snap!.... and Avalanche gets **** on...

I've seen Jimmy's in person and they look plenty beefy. They look every bit as strong as the stock parts. I haven't however compared them side by side. ~dso

davido
04-29-2002, 11:53 PM
Originally posted by Chadnutz
My only worry ss that after I over a grand on this axle, I don't end up putting it on...

Axle - $240 - PAID
Replace worn parts - ~$125 - PAID
Shafts - $255 - PAID
Gears - $170
Install Kit - $95
Detroit - $580
Steering Arms - $240
Steering Linkage - $320
Knuckle Machining - couple of cases of beer - PAID

And more...Scary isn't it. :(
Thats 2 grand alone. You know it's going to cost more.
The question is how to get this all done and still be debt free.
At least I'll be getting a definate $9/hour starting in the summer.
$2000/9 = ~230 solid hours of work. I'll never do the swap....


WOW! There are a LOT of other options in that price range. I'm still having a hard time figuring out how a Toy axle was going to be more.

Axle $300 max (but didn't you have one?? oh well)
High Steer Kit $549 (All Pro)
Detroit $429 (All Pro)
Super Birfs $300
Gears $100
Install Kit $125


More?? And that's including some reall beefy "yet to be broken birfs".

From my own quest for a D60, I'm seeing that $2k buys a LOT of axle(s). What am I missing here?

I'm really trying NOT to be an *** here, but it doesn't seem to make much $en$e. I'm not following the logic here...
:confused: :confused: :confused:

If nothing else, at least make sure this $2,500 C10 sees some action.

back to slightly disgruntled mode....
~dso

Krawler68
04-30-2002, 12:00 AM
I heard that my EB D44 has alot of moeny in it but it's in other **** and it's kinda krept on me...I would never have built it up if I'd known I was going to have this much money in it.

D44- 150 bucks
New Balljoints- 80 bucks
Detroit- 40 bucks
Gears- 100 Bucks
Axles- 450 bucks
CTM joints- 300 bucks
Cro Moly Steering- 325 bucks
Disc brake conversion- 500? bucks

that's 1945 bucks right there.
Damn I coulda bought a hella D60 for that much...

davido
04-30-2002, 12:09 AM
Originally posted by Krawler68
that's 1945 bucks right there.
Damn I coulda bought a hella D60 for that much...


All of a sudden, Boyce and Dynatrac start making their point.... well, maybe not. But there are 1 ton sets to be had for $1200 - $2000. Some with a rear detroit already.

StevenAg03
04-30-2002, 12:10 AM
Originally posted by Krawler68


that's 1945 bucks right there.
Damn I coulda bought a hella D60 for that much...


live and learn huh...

StevenAg03
04-30-2002, 12:12 AM
where can you get the new army surplus d60/14bolts??? i have seen where people get them and they are still in the original creats...never been used....is this what your talking bout dave?

Krawler68
04-30-2002, 12:17 AM
Originally posted by StevenAg03



lie and learn huh...

Lie and learn? or Live and Learn... I coulda lied and said how much all the **** I bought should cost me...then I'd be looking at more like 2700 bucks for all that ****...
:(

StevenAg03
04-30-2002, 12:31 AM
i fixed it...i meant to say live and learn...

i could say that the gears, lockers, axles, and tires on my jeep should have cost me around 1600 but they didnt....:D :D ....i guess if you add in setup fee(they were when i got them), it would be closer to $2K....

davido
04-30-2002, 12:33 AM
Originally posted by StevenAg03
where can you get the new army surplus d60/14bolts??? i have seen where people get them and they are still in the original creats...never been used....is this what your talking bout dave?


No, I haven't seen any of these yet. At least not any in my $$ range. I think Boyce has them.
http://www.boyceequipment.com/axles.html

http://www.boyceequipment.com/pricelist.html#Truck Axles

Rebuilt GM Dana 60 Front Axle ** $ 2,150.00

ADD ONS:
373 - 488 Ring&Pinion $ 225.00
513 - up Ring&Pinion $ 285.00
Lock-Rite $ 469.00
Power Lock $ 595.00
Detroit Soft Locker $ 595.00
Trac Lock $ 385.00
Spool $ 356.00
ARB Air Locker $ 755.00
ARB Compresser $ 248.00
Super Winch Hubs $ 150.00
Warn Premium Hubs $ 249.00
Upper Sway Bar Pad & U-Bold Kit $ 169.00

Chadnutz
04-30-2002, 01:27 AM
David,
The stuff you just mentioned is $1555 because the axle cost me
$50. Now you must include wheel spacers, rotors, gear setup kit and calipers. Now I have a Toyota axle that cost more than the GM ten bolt, and although Toyota's stuff is beefy for being stock, the 10 bolt/D44 MUST be stronger. Even if it isn't much....