Home Brewed Powertank

[AgDieseler]

Like everybody else, I needed onboard air, and for a number of reasons, a belt-driven/electric compressor just won't work. Enter the Powertank. At nearly $400, it just doesn't fit the college budget. I get crafty and call the local gas folks. Botco hires mental midgets with little or no social skills, so they were jackasses to me on the phone. No business for them. Finally, I arrived at Praxair.

I told Larry about what I wanted to do with CO2 (air tools, inflate tires, etc.), and he suggested the less corrosive alternative, nitrogen; I bought it. I got a 40 cu. ft. bottle of nitrogen at 2000psi and a 200psi Victor regulator all for just under $200. I get home, and unwrap my present to myself, and after assembly, I go to test it out. It took 1000psi of tank pressure to fill only TWO of my BFGs from 10psi to 40psi! Back to Praxair I go.

I told Larry about how nitrogen just wouldn't cut it, and that I wanted to get store credit for a 20lb CO2 tank, and a new regulator. His response was classic. He said, "Uh, we can, like, swap the bottles, and uh, I guess swap you another regulator." By God, that's service.

I'll keep y'all updated on prices and part numbers.

[Doug Krebs]

give me that york back then. Why is engine driven out of the question?

[AgDieseler]

space mostly

[robertf03]

it should fit, might just take some creative thinking :flipoff2:

Don't do nitrogen, the whole point of CO2 is its easy to get refilled (Acadamy, Oshmans, Home Brew Store, etc.)

[CRaSHnBuRN]

Yeah, keep us updated on parts and prices. OBA is one of my next goals, and a CO2 setup looks pretty good to me. That way I can use the little remaining room on my engine to rig up an on board welder similar to what eight is building.

[AgDieseler]

I ended up having to go to Botco for most of the stuff. They carry a much larger inventory than Praxair.

Here are the parts:

(1) 15 lb CO2 bottle, Al - $121.25
(1) filled - $9.50
(1) CO2 regulator with 100 lb spring, pn: 103-100 - $30.92
(2) Milton 1/4" female coupler, pn: MLT716 - $6.47
(2) Milton 1/4" male coupler, pn: MLT727 - $0.98
(1) Milton 1/4" air chuck, pn: MLT690 - $6.30
(1) 200 psi coiled yellow hose - Free, already had one (usually around $5-10)
(1) Amerex fire extinguisher braket, pn: 810HDVB - $34.64

Grand Total for the Home Brew--- $217.51
Powertank retail price -------------- $400.00

The braket was bought at American Fire and Safety in Bryan. It is the exact same bracket that Powertank sells for $50. This combination filled one of my 35" BFGs from 10-40psi in 2:15. Not bad at all.

[Ben97XJ]

where are American Fire and Safety in Bryan located exactly?

[AgDieseler]

Originally posted by Ben97XJ
where are American Fire and Safety in Bryan located exactly?
On Ross St. in Bryan. I remembered the directions just long enough to forget them. Try Yahoo.

[CRaSHnBuRN]

This website has some lower prices for the tanks. Don't know what shipping will cost you though.

http://www.beveragefactory.com/draftbeer/tanks/co2.shtml

[AgDieseler]

Originally posted by LostIt
...Don't know what shipping will cost you though.
The filled weight on my bottle is 36 lbs. As a safety precaution, bottles are filled with one less pound than rated, so there are 14 lbs of CO2 in the tank. That leaves approximately 22 lbs. shipping weight.

Using the UPS quick cost calculator (http://wwwapps.ups.com/QCCWebApp/request?iso_language=en&iso_country=US) and the overall dimensions that were provided on the BeverageFactory website, the shipping of a 15lb tank would probably be in the neighborhood of $12-15 for regular UPS ground.

$95 tank + shipping = ~ $107-110

[CRaSHnBuRN]

So have you tried running any air tools with it yet? How long do these tanks last? I've heard people say they could fill x number of tires, but I really never heard anyone mention how fast the use of air tools goes through the C02.

[Doug Krebs]

num nuts you can't ship a tank full......

[AgDieseler]

Originally posted by LostIt
So have you tried running any air tools with it yet? How long do these tanks last? I've heard people say they could fill x number of tires, but I really never heard anyone mention how fast the use of air tools goes through the C02.

I have no idea what the exact numbers are, but based on everything that I have read, my guess would be that a 15 lb tank will fill 35-40 35" tires from 10-35 psi.


Originally posted by Doug Krebs
num nuts you can't ship a tank full......
read closer. 36lbs minus 14 lbs CO2 equals 22 lbs shipped....num nuts:flipoff2:

[CRaSHnBuRN]

Originally posted by AgDieseler


I have no idea what the exact numbers are, but based on everything that I have read, my guess would be that a 15 lb tank will fill 35-40 35" tires from 10-35 psi.




Yeah, like I said, I've heard people state how many tires they thought they could inflate, but no one has really ever said how much use they got from the tank when using air tools. I mean just how much does say, an impact or air rachet use? I've very rarely gotten to use air tools, and I don't think I've ever paid attention to just how much air they took to operate. I will probally go with a 10lb tank because of space considerations, but if running air tools (which I really want to do and would probally use it for the most) burns through the CO2 too fast, then I need to know that so I get the bigger tank.

[Doug Krebs]

I remember reading something like you can't use a regular regulator when using air tools because the line will freeze????

[uglyota]

For a seat-of the pants estimate, it takes my chitty CH impact and CH walmart compressor more time and motor restarts/shotoffs to fill up a 33x12.5 than it does to rattle off the 6 lugs holding it on.
Enough air to fill 35-40 35" tires??!! That'll probably run a rattle wrench until you're waaay too drunk to actually drive the fixed rig home. I guess it would depend on the fix, but if you use the impact sparingly, just to rip off lug nuts and break the really tight stuff, I wouldn't worry about running out of CO2 on a weekend.
If anyone's placing an order to that beverage place, let me get in on it and split shipping.

[Doug Krebs]

an impact gun needs alot of pressure and volume to work well, can you put that amount through a regular regulator???

[uglyota]

Originally posted by AgDieseler

The filled weight on my bottle is 36 lbs. As a safety precaution, bottles are filled with one less pound than rated, so there are 14 lbs of CO2 in the tank. That leaves approximately 22 lbs. shipping weight.

Using the UPS quick cost calculator (http://wwwapps.ups.com/QCCWebApp/request?iso_language=en&iso_country=US) and the overall dimensions that were provided on the BeverageFactory website, the shipping of a 15lb tank would probably be in the neighborhood of $12-15 for regular UPS ground.

$95 tank + shipping = ~ $107-110
or you can just click "add to shopping cart," go to checkout, and find that they only ship FedEx, at $15.95 for a 15 pounder, and $21.95 for a 20.

[Doug Krebs]

an impact gun needs alot of pressure and volume to work well, can you put that amount through a regular regulator???

Also, the most use i have seen an OBA get used was mine at Mason in the summer. A guy with buggy/FJ40 broke his crossmember that held his 4 link on. He had to use an air grinder for about 15 minutes to get it to fit again.

Thats what i want to have my OBA do and fill up tires.

Using an impact is usually a luxury when working on a car. To tell you the truth, on the trail i have never used an impact to get my lugs off. It's usually a more of a pain in the ass of getting the hose out than turning the lug wrench!!!!

[uglyota]

Originally posted by Doug Krebs
an impact gun needs alot of pressure and volume to work well, can you put that amount through a regular regulator???

Does the 100# spring mean the regulator puts down 100psi max? Doesn't say anything about the volume, though. I guess if you just needed to break really tight stuff free, a low volume of high pressure would work allright...you wouldn't be rattling your Ubolt nuts all the way off, though. AgDieseler, you wanna hook an impact up to your setup and let us know how it goes?

Originally posted by Doug Krebs
Using an impact is usually a luxury when working on a car. To tell you the truth, on the trail i have never used an impact to get my lugs off. It's usually a more of a pain in the ass of getting the hose out than turning the lug wrench!!!!
you're apparently not lazy enough. And who said anything about working on a CAR?

[Doug Krebs]

Cars need work too. There is not much on a truck that isn't on a car when your talking about impact guns. Unless your unbolting your cage or something.

[uglyota]

easy tiger; I was just playin'

[CRaSHnBuRN]

Okay, the impact was just for comparison sake. (though me and busa did use an impact to completly strip down and reassemble my front axle when we welded up the diff and installed the longfields). An air rachet would be a nice little tool to have though.

[mark]

Out in the woods of Virginia, the prefered CO2 setup uses a "liberated" Coke CO2 bottle and regulator. Add an air chuck with hose and its off to the races.

-Mark

[AgDieseler]

Doug, most impact guns are rated for about 90psi of pressure. The 100 lb spring means that 100 lb of pressure is available. The time is takes for a conventional 135psi compressor to inflate my tire versus my CO2 tank supposedly regulated at 100psi is about the same. Even though there are no gauges on my setup, I would say that it is putting out at or near the rated psi. I have no idea what the rated cfm is.

Keep in mind that I paid $30 for this regulator, and for the price, it's a damn good bang for the buck. The regulator alone from powertank cost $200.

Eric, come over somtime and bring a 1/2" impact and a 9" extension if you've got it, and we'll try her out.

[CRaSHnBuRN]

Originally posted by mark
Out in the woods of Virginia, the prefered CO2 setup uses a "liberated" Coke CO2 bottle and regulator. Add an air chuck with hose and its off to the races.

-Mark

Yeah, it hurts to think about dumping $100+ on a tank when I got all these nice ones laying around at work :D I had actually thought about trying to get one of the vendors to hook me up with an old bottle for cheap, but I've heard alot of places won't fill those tanks because they think they're "liberated".

[Doug Krebs]

Can ya'll just not fit a york in the engine bay??? Or just don't want to mess with it at all. I don't understand why you wouldn't want one unless you couldn't fit it in there. Mine was pretty damn cheap to do.

York and AC hoses with the factory Volve mount: $30 junk yard

Manifold with pressure regulator: $2 compressor rebuild shop

Check and pressure relief valve: $15 compressor rebuild shop

Brake line from manifold to relief valve: $3 Ho' Reilly

Belt from Ho' Reilly: $8

Rubber hose to connect tanks and manifold: FREEBIE, found on a construction site cause it had a couple holes.

Assorted brass fittings, connectors, hose clamps, and hardware: ~$20

Steel for bracket: ??? Pretty damn cheap, left over from other projects

Time: weekend to make the bracket, wire a switch in the cab, and plumb the set up

Total cost: ~$79

Decent constant air supply: Priceless...

[fbronco86]

does anyone know if the york came with the single belt setup??

[Doug Krebs]

Mike the one i have in the garage right now has a single v-belt.

[fbronco86]

i meant i was looking for one with serpentine belt setup. my mustang motor runs that. it would be nice to take out the old compressor and put the york in place of that.

[Fredo]

Originally posted by fbronco86
i meant i was looking for one with serpentine belt setup. my mustang motor runs that. it would be nice to take out the old compressor and put the york in place of that.

If you've already got a compressor mounted, and your a/c doesn't work, why not retrofit that one to run OBA? It doesn't have to be a york to run OBA...my friend Ryan(the guy with the cherokee in Cruces) setup his with a sanden compressor right next to his a/c compressor. The only deal with those is they don't have a crankcase like the york, so you would have to oil it every once in a while, or set up an oiler. I've seen a few sandens setup with grease fittings on them. Haven't looked into how they are doing that, but it definitely works.


Oh, and back to the subject at hand, I'm with doug. My OBA using the york and the good sized reserve tank has 120psi while idle, and while filling a tire, only drops to about 90-95 psi. I have also ran an air rachet, an impact, die grinder, and high speed sander off of it and didn't have a problem with cfm output on any of them. I like the idea of having air as long as the engine will run. :)

[uglyota]

Originally posted by Fredo

I like the idea of having air as long as the engine will run. :)
Herein lies MY concern. My engine spends a lot of time not running.

[Doug Krebs]

To tell you the truth, when wheeling my engine has always been my main concern. If your engine doesn't run like it should, normally the trip will suck, you'll slow people down, and it can be dangerous. I've always tried to have my engine working well and if it didn't, i've done my best to fix it.

What i'm trying to say is, i wouldn't wheel to much if my engine wasn't reliable. That is one thing i don't want to worry about. I want to worry about axle shafts breaking, tires exploding, etc...

[Graystroke]

fredo,
i've seen a sanden with the grease fitting. They tap into the 3/4"? flat looking bolt right on the top in the middle of the compressor.

David,
I'd also be interested in the flow rating on that reg you bought. The reason that I've always thought Powertank's were so expensive is for their ability to flow high CFM rates and maintain high pressures (up to 175psi) w/o icing. The higher the flow rate the better chance for icing. Welding regs will handle the icing issue but they won't flow enough CFM. If that thing works...that's surely the way to go.

And for the air tool questions, "How long will it run an impact?" I read on one web site that the 20 lb bottle will last for 20 minutes.

Should be easy to calculate. An impact runs at between 4-6 cfm at 90psi. I'll dig up some data on the bottles and gases....got to go find my pocket reference book....:flipoff2:

[AgDieseler]

Eric just stopped by, and we tested out the regulator with his 1/2" CH impact. It didn't go so well. The regulator doesn't provide near enough CFM to turn lug nuts, but hey, it was cheap.

In summary, if all you want CO2 for is filling tires, then the $30 regulator is for you. Don't expect to run any air tools off it. Victor and Powertank offer bigger, better regulators that will run air tools with ease, but they also carry bigger price tags.

As for me, I'm going to stick with the cheap regulator for now, and I'll get my grinding, drilling, and TV watching done off of a power inverter.:D

[AgDieseler]

I have pictures (http://community.webshots.com/album/70255041JQnCeW) of the CO2 tank and bracket up on my Webshots site.

[Doug Krebs]

I hope those spare axle shafts aren't the sentimental ones:D ....if they are, i have a spare set you can have for $50

[AgDieseler]

They are, and I might just take you up on that offer.