Scott's Patrol Progress

[JeepPhisherman]

Experience? What did the PSC set up run you? $1200 or so?

[redcagepatrol]

Experience? What did the PSC set up run you? $1200 or so?

yes - but with TRE's, tube for the tie rod, and inserts for the TRE's. I got everything from them with one call...

[redcagepatrol]

So - I need a new winch, but I want to buy one that will work in a future tube chassis. I want a Warn to match the majority of other folks.

what should I get?
I was thinking about getting the XD9000i but I think that the integrated solinoids (and the winch itself) might be too big for a tube buggy.

I could get the M8000 (the same one that I have) but worried that it's too "old" for me...

Also thinking about the 9.0Rc because it already comes with synthetic rope. A little worried about the 50' cable though (but think that I could always use a strap when needed for the extra length)

[AggieTJ2007]

9.0 RC would work good plus I think you can buy synthetic extension pieces to hook together.

also
this winch , warn 9.5xp is newer and would mount the same as the m8000
http://www.quadratec.com/products/92134_100_07.htm

[rockfrawg]

i know Fredo would back me here....BLACK MOUNTAIN!!! :D

[Fredo]

I have no recollection of what you speak of....bastard.

[redcagepatrol]

i know Fredo would back me here....BLACK MOUNTAIN!!! :D

Rodney had one for a little bit - that thing was absolutly horrible:mad: I got frustrated every time that we had to use that thing - it sucked...

[agjohn02]

you can cut down a m8000 pretty easily to make a small buggy winch.

[bburris]

Rodney had one for a little bit - that thing was absolutly horrible:mad: I got frustrated every time that we had to use that thing - it sucked...

Well, you weren't actually supposed to use it - they're just for show.

[redcagepatrol]

I put a new drive seat in for this trip - the old one's frame was broken byone repair... This one - straight from the junkyard is much cleaner too:D

I also fixed the exhaust (was hanging on the rear axle), welded up the cracked rear diff, replaced the brake line, replace the shock bushings that were ejected, and replace the two tires that were cut from the last trip.

I added another cup holder - impulse buy at Bass pro shops...

Sorry no pics but it's readdy to go!

[robertf03]

where did you get shock bushings? 2 of mine ejected and its pretty annoying

[redcagepatrol]

my buddy Jeremy gave me like eight from 4-wheel parts for free... You want some, I've got some left?

[robertf03]

don't worry about it, if I cant get it done by Thurdsay its not getting done until sometime next year

[redcagepatrol]

so I broke a rear R&P this time...

This is my history / progression with rear Toyota axles

1) ran toyota 4cyl case with 4:88's and Detroit - stripped R&P at twice
2) went back to 4:10 gears, 4cyl case with detroit - stripped R&P at least once
3) swapped to V6 case with 4:10's welded in 2002 when I built the Patrol. I think the welds broke once and I stripped the gears once. This lasted several years but in December last year and Febuary of this year I broke the welded spider gears in half (two trips in a row, unique break).
4) swapped back to a 4 cyl case - welded with 4:10's for the July trip to Clayton. It held up for that trip. Broke on this one.

Long story short - I'm having a hard time deciding what I should change to. My options are:
1) buy a NEW V6 third member with a detroit and heat treated gears. Might go to a lower 5:29 gear for a future upgrade to bigger tires. Cost ~$1200 for the rear, another ~$1200 for the front (chage gears and add Detroit)
2) Swap the rear axle to a Spider9. Cost ~$3400:eek: for the rear and still $1200 for the front. A big part of that expense is the True HI9 third member...

I've only put used parts in this thing for the past 6 years, spending this much money to fix it will be pretty rough (and not in my budget:))

My future goals are to run 42" tires and lighten the rig...

What to do, what to do:confused2

I'm leaning towards the Spider9 because I'll only have to build it once and won't ever have to worry about it again - even if I swap in a sweet V8 - just looking towards the future.

[davido]

I'd man up and buy a 14 Bolt for $200. :flipoff2:






I wouldn't spend another dime on those axles though.

[tigweld]

I wouldn't put a boat anchor 14 bolt in, a 9" would be plenty strong with weight reduction he has planned. I think I would probably rather have a strange or mw low pinion for strength instead of the hi 9, unless his rear driveline angles suck then it's ok.

[davido]

I was kidding. I know Scott's not buying one anyway. I don't see an issue with them with disks, but whatever. Who cares about a little weight vs the extra cost. Not me, but that's fine. It's a lot of extra skrilla for those 9" axles though. Still a better option IMO than spending more on the Toy ones. Especially with dreams of 42s lurking already.

[robertf03]

does the front hold up?

aren't fj80 rears a bigger R&P than v6? is that an option?

[FJAggie07]

v6 third with GOOD gears. That's my vote but I am a Toyota purist.

EDIT - GOOD = Heated and Cryo'd gears.

[tigweld]

I think the fj80 rear limit's u on gear or locker selection. a newer style tundra rear would be bad ass though as it's one beefy biatch.

[redcagepatrol]

does the front hold up?

aren't fj80 rears a bigger R&P than v6? is that an option?

The front holds up. I've only broken a stock short side inner (on Upper Heldorado in Moab) and the lincoln locker... After I broke the stock shaft I swapped to chromo inners and changed the FJ80 Birfields to 300M units:)

I do believe that if I actually spend money on GOOD gears and a locker they will hold up, but I've repaired cracks in the housing two or three times - and a few of the stud holes (that hold the third member) are stripped out.

running a Ford 9 offers other advantages. I can carry one cheap spare third member for both rigs, very upgradeable, can weld anywhere for links.

Those True-HI9's have been holding up pretty good in competition in the past two years. There was one gear ratio that's not very strong and I think that those guys always heat treat the gears also. I know that Twisted Customs runs them for everything and they are still on top...

[uglyota]

diamond housing + heat/cryo/300m gears + start building something new to put v8 and mogs in

edit: $850 housing, $250 for R&P + treatment

[eight]

I'd just drop a lp 9" in. What would it cost for one with a detroit and 35 spline shafts? Cheap and easy to get replacement parts also.

How long do you have to wait for replacement majic voodooed V6 toy gears or hi9 gears if you break them?

[redcagepatrol]

The Toyota T-case has a pretty high rear output so the rear driveshaft angle sucks, and that helps break T-case output shafts.

a built Ford 9 lp is a good $1600+, the TrueHI9 is like $2200 - so it's $600 for extra driveshaft clearence.
http://www.truehi9.com/
they also have the MEGA9 that I just saw on their website:
http://www.truehi9.com/megahi9.html
cool stuff...

[davido]

Make a rear out of this. :)

http://houston.craigslist.org/pts/960712043.html

Quick change. Just what you need.

[Graystroke]

cheap problem solver
http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/pts/955734075.html

[tigweld]

I thought they had discs

[william_ace]

i thought disks were standard on alot of things now but they arent

[tigweld]

what truck's are they not standard, not any of the big three.

[TMatheaus]

chevy, they were for a while then they went back to drum

[J Cooper]

I thought they had discs

07 they started using disks in the rear.

[uglyota]

it could also be off a 2x4. Too wide anyway

[redcagepatrol]

I'm kind-of stuck on the Ford 9. I really like the Toyota stuff but don't have a hard-on to keep my drivetrain all Toyota. If i'm going to put a new axle in this rig, it will have 35 spline chromo shafts so I never have to worry about it again.

[uglyota]

hard-on?

[redcagepatrol]

hard-on?

fixed:gigem:

So what axle housing should I get?
Ballistic fab - $400 + $99 to get the 3/8" face
http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/Ballistic-9-Axle-Housing_p_123-1608.html

Spidertrax - $500
http://www.spidertrax.com/3-OD-x-1-4-Wall

Diamond Axle - $900 WOW!
http://www.diamondaxle.com/rear_nonsteering.htm

Moser - $500 with ends, but $$$ for extra ground clearence
http://www.moserengineering.com/Pages/Housings/hous-ford9.html

Currie - $330 housing with ends + $160 ground clearence = $490
http://www.currieenterprises.com/cestore/Products4x4.aspx?id=1563
http://www.currieenterprises.com/cestore/Products4x4.aspx?id=1561

Housing ends are about $90 for the pair.

[uglyota]

:D
Not interested in building your own? Find whatever that desirable center is (a la flemco), DOM tubes, etc. Though it probbably wouldn't take much fabbing before $330 starts to look like a pretty sweet deal

[tigweld]

I like the spidertrax or ballistic equally, but this is what I would really like if I was ballin' http://www.dirt-tech.com/tp_pro_series_axle_housings.htm

[J Cooper]

i like the ballistic

[redcagepatrol]

Spidertrax has free shipping till Christmas. $60 for Ballistic - and I would pay the extra $99 for the 3/8" drilled and tapped face.

[Graystroke]

I like the spidertrax or ballistic equally, but this is what I would really like if I was ballin' http://www.dirt-tech.com/tp_pro_series_axle_housings.htm

looks like the same **** you can build/ have built...

[Jackasic]

i like the spidertrax. Odd question of the day, can you use the center section out of a Rockwell and put it in a housing similar to this?

[tigweld]

avalanche made a sheetmetal housing with a 2.5t chunk for a while, wierd set-up though as it also had balljoint 60 outers.

[redcagepatrol]

So, I have a problem, looking for suggestions...
I want to run the TrueHi9 in the rear - so I don't have to worry about hitting the driveshaft, and can get rid of the CV. (Toyota output is high up)

I am currently running 4:10 gears with 37" tires but plan on runing ~42" tires in the future.

The TrueHi9 comes in 4.57, 4.86, 5.14, & 5.38
My Front Toyota High Pinion comes in 4.56, 4.88, & 5.29

Once I put the third member into the rear axle, I don't ever plan on taking it out again - so no temporary gear swap.

TrueHi9 doesn't reccomend the 5.38 / 5.29 combo but says that some customers say it works fine.

What do ya'll think? Just go for it? Don't worry about the ratio difference?

[tigweld]

I'd go 4.88 and 4.86 give your front pinion a little more beef for 42"s

[redcagepatrol]

I'd go 4.88 and 4.86 give your front pinion a little more beef for 42"s

TrueHi9 says that the higher the ratio (for a high pinion), the stronger the gear set. They have a pretty big section on their website explaining why the reverse cut gears are stonger in the higher ratios rather than weaker.
http://www.truehi9.com/gears2.html

I don't know if that applies the the Toyota stuff also, but from the theory they use, it should.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

What is your crawl speed now and what is swapping to the 42"s going to do to it.

You will be gaining about 13% more speed when you upsize your combo meal like that. I know you have some pretty good gearing in it now, but without going lower will the bigger meats make enough of a difference to you?

[redcagepatrol]

my only problem right now is that I have to drive in 2wd Low to drive on the street for acceptable progress... - I'd like it to have a little more power in 2wd high... If I go to bigger tires, 2wd high will be completly out of the question.

[Fredo]

This kids...is why 4cyl engines suck. :flipoff2:

[RCcola55]

Ide say 5.14, if strength is ever an issue look into cyro treating the gear set

[J Cooper]

sounds like you need a bigger motor

when i say bigger it, i mean at least bigger than your wifes :flipoff2:

[tigweld]

TrueHi9 says that the higher the ratio (for a high pinion), the stronger the gear set. They have a pretty big section on their website explaining why the reverse cut gears are stonger in the higher ratios rather than weaker.
http://www.truehi9.com/gears2.html

I don't know if that applies the the Toyota stuff also, but from the theory they use, it should.

i don't see them saying that at all, he only compares the it similar ratio dana 60 parts. all i gather from that (as i have read it before) is that due to high hypoid design of the 9" and large and low pinion offset you can get a better tooth pitch and cross section compared to a normal design. this doesnt apply to toyota as there pinion offset is not as extreme as a 9".

[redcagepatrol]

i don't see them saying that at all, he only compares the it similar ratio dana 60 parts. all i gather from that (as i have read it before) is that due to high hypoid design of the 9" and large and low pinion offset you can get a better tooth pitch and cross section compared to a normal design. this doesnt apply to toyota as there pinion offset is not as extreme as a 9".

Cross sectional area X overlap
or total material engagement
(we feel this number is
representative of overall strength)
Hi9 ratio 4.11 4.57 4.86 5.14 5.38
1.020 1.005 1.099 1.042 1.276

[tigweld]

yes but that is due to the high hypoid, only on a 9" will it be that high. when I made the first post I was thinkin in relation to decent front axle strength as the 5.29 toyota gear set can't be nearly as strong as 4.88 toyota set up.

[redcagepatrol]

I got it now... I need to do a little more research on the Toyota HP I think

[Seth]

That was my first impresion but I didnt read in detail so I didn't post up. Any of the Hi9" R&P's will prob be ok (def with the 4 cyl? - I hesitate to say def with you :D), but you could gain strength with a higher toy gearset that could potentially make a more real world diff - IE there is a chance you break a 5.29 when you would not have broken a 4.88 etc.

[J Cooper]

scott said to post these for him.

pimp

[KrazyKarl02]

1350 U-joint?

[J Cooper]

i think thats what he said.

use the ruler on the wall to measure it.