Forced articulation??

[Doug Krebs]

What are ya'lls opinions of forced articulation? I saw a buggy on pirate yesterday that had a kustom coil wrapped around a hydraulic cylinder. Looked exactly like a regular coilover.

Does anyone think forced articulation is almost like cheating? You can pretty much force traction where you need.

I like the idea, but it seems like it's pretty expensive and to me it's almost like your cheating.

Thoughts??

[Matt Conlee]

I dont know much about it but Mike Green from FWD has a CJ with hydraulic cylinders at all four corners. I watched him make the wall ar TSOB look easy. His one ton axles extended wheelbase and 44s also help.

I dont think this is considered cheating but if it is then rear steer would be considered cheating as well

[Doug Krebs]

I'm not talking in competitions, I'm just talking in general. I investigating using this instead of regular coilovers. It just seems like it would make things much easier and take away from the driver skill.

Say there was one huge rock on a rear tire preventing you from going up a hill, you could pull the front down and raise that one wheel in the rear and just go over. Seems like it takes the fun out of it.

[AgDieseler]

Nobody went up that wall smoother than Ferris McCollum, and he didn't have anything incredibly special as far as the drive train or suspension. He just had 37" MTRs in the front and 40s in the rear with big ass axles.

The forced articulation that guy had worked, but it was setup a little sloppy.

[stx4wheeler]

i dont know a whole lot about it but it seems from what you ve said it takes a lot of the challenge out if it, the driver would not have to havea as much skill thats my two cents

[AgDieseler]

It's still a challenge to get up an obstacle, but it just removes some of the peoblems encountered when you lift a tire and that corner has no traction. That's basically what it does. It just allows you to maintain traction on all four. The passive mode on many rams sucks though.

[Doug Krebs]

Here is the guy I'm talking about

[Doug Krebs]

:D

[Doug Krebs]

:)

[redcagepatrol]

from watching Mike, it looked as though it took MORE driver skill to use the hydraulics. It took like 4 people to figure out what would work best and it ended up just being trial and error.

I just like it because it makes the truck easy to work on.

I like things simple though, and there is just too much crap with that setup - hoses everywhere!:flipoff2:

[StevenAg03]

Originally posted by AgDieseler

The forced articulation that guy had worked, but it was setup a little sloppy.



your talking about the following CJ right? how is it sloppy?

[redcagepatrol]

It looked god to me, it is definitley a play toy though.

He had everthing layed out in the bed. We must look who's talking about being messy though - have you seen Dieselgirls truck:rainbow:

[Doug Krebs]

weight would be not be much at all maybe +100 pounds. The guy in the pictures that I posted said when he is in "Float" mode it's similar to a regular coil over.

3 modes his can be in:
Control: Moving cylinder up and down
Float: Works like a shock, fluid is free to move in and out at will
Neutural: Fluid in cylinder is static, making the suspension stiff.

He said the key to getting the "Float" ride right is playing with different sizes of hoses and flow restrictors.

I'm thinking I have enough to deal with at the moment. It could end up that I'm not satisfied with the performance and would want coilovers...

[AgDieseler]

Originally posted by redcagepatrol
It looked god to me, it is definitley a play toy though.

He had everthing layed out in the bed. We must look who's talking about being messy though - have you seen Dieselgirls truck:rainbow:
I guess the important thing was that it worked, and it did work well. He didn't need a pull to get up that first ledge, but neither did the Ford roadster or Busa.

I just don't understand why someone would build something that intricate and cool, and not do it neat and clean. That's just me though.

[fbronco86]

i think its to many levers. one for this one for that. how much do these things cost anyway??

[Doug Krebs]

Levers????? For the cost I'm not sure yet, he kinda mentioned something about the price is comparable to coil overs.

[CRaSHnBuRN]

hell, I say go for it when you have the time and the money. Why not try something different? If people where afraid to try something, and modify it to get it to work right, we would all be drving Z71s and braggin about how our procomp skidplate makes us float across the mud. Sure it may be a lot of work, and it may require alot of attention to use, but like you said, in that one situation it could be a life saver. The rest of the time leave it alone. Its kinda like a winch, most of the time you don't need it, but when you do its sure is nice to have

[Doug Krebs]

It's got a little back seat in it. Wheelbase is 130" he made it so his family could wheel with him. It's also made to have 53" tires. Anyways, it's just for illustrative purposes.

I don't think the levers would be hard to get used to. You only use it when you want anyways. I think the 1st lever selects what "mode" the suspension is in and the 4 others control the ride height of each corner.

[Shaggy]

i think it is awsome... you can make your rig walk instread of drive:D

[jerryg79]

hey main, mi cousin jorge has one just like that main

[fbronco86]

for real check this out. why drive you can hop over rocks

[fbronco86]

and that is why force articulation is gay haha:flipoff2:

[StevenAg03]

and those trucks have nothing to propel them....so when your hydros stop working you gotta push it donw the trail....

[Doug Krebs]

Thank you for hi jacking another thread

[uglyota]

just a question on "cheating"
Is building a sweet rig cheating? Some people will always talk chit about you when you cruise up something they broke on, so you can try to please them or you can build a buggy you like and like to drive. As long as it's legal for the class you want to compete in, put all the bells and whistles you want on it!
If you want variable ride height, a cheaper option might be air bags under 1/4 elliptical. There's a toyota-based buggy somewhere running that. You want the right rear wheel to push, fill that airbag; your suspension's still as soft (or almost) as it was at normal height.

[jerryg79]

i didnt mean to hijack your post doug.....but i was thinking about something, what happens if you blow a hydraulic hose, does it just go into float mode, or are you without suspension? can you lock out a side, or something like that

[Doug Krebs]

I've seen the airbag stuff and it's pretty neat too, but you only gain half as much. With hydraulics you can go up and down.

I see your point on the "cheating" aspect. I'm still looking into it but it might be more expensive than I want to spend.

[StevenAg03]

Originally posted by Snatch Adams
i didnt mean to hijack your post doug.....but i was thinking about something, what happens if you blow a hydraulic hose, does it just go into float mode, or are you without suspension? can you lock out a side, or something like that

this is nt to say that hydrolic lines will not fail, but they wont just fail with no warning. They will fail if they are rubbing agienst something but thats about it. all the busses at work have hydrolic lines somewhere or another and the only time they fail is when we dont take proper care to keep them from rubbing on something. and they will show sings....




also...how can it be cheating....there is no rules that say you cant go to the trail with a hydrolic suspension. maybe if he is wanting to compete in a given class but not for a trail vehicle, which is obviously what mike green's jeep is...

[Doug Krebs]

Originally posted by Snatch Adams
i was thinking about something, what happens if you blow a hydraulic hose, does it just go into float mode, or are you without suspension? can you lock out a side, or something like that

If it totally blows out a line it would be like running a rig with out shocks. I'm not sure on how the plumbing works so I don't know if it would screw the whole system, or if you could shut that one ram off.

Either way I'd carry one or 2 long hoses enough to reach any part of the system.

[StevenAg03]

oh...krabs in talking to mike green, he said it only added about 250 lbs to the rig...so you cant carry your girlfriend along....it will be ok





























EDIT:goss being your girlfriend...not the redhead...and i will find the email he sent me about it...

[StevenAg03]

found the email...


is it Steven or Steve

Traction !!!!!
out in las cruces last february i was up on a waterfall but slightly off camber to the left. the 2 rear tires were down in mud. my left front was getting traction and would pull me up slightly but then i would slip back down. a guy yelled put pressure on the right front. i turned the pump on and puched the right front down. it grabbed and i walked up a waterfall no one else had made without putting huge rocks to help them up. i run 44 inch tires but a few other friends were running them also but with out the cheater rocks to get them out of the mud and over the 1st bottom ledge they could advance at all.

next. i am very seldom ever off camber.......if i get off camber i hit the levers and bring that side up....

most waterfalls or steep climbs i approach like the comp guys and then some. they take their winch and attach it to the axle. then winch the front down. i do this same thing with the hydraulics then take the back end and raise it up. so it loks like a cat. more pressure on the front end.

i can move my center of gravity......

did you check out our site....

http://www.blacksheep4x4.com

then go to projects and click on it


then click on hydraulic suspension

it is a pretty costly endeavor and a lot of work but worth it.....plus it add abut 250lbs to your rig

Mike G

[Doug Krebs]

Originally posted by StevenAg03
EDIT:goss being your girlfriend...not the redhead...and i will find the email he sent me about it...

Holy **** man!!! Never mention that again!!! I've been with my current and future girl friend for over a year now. She's tall, about 5'10", skinny, and is a brunette!

P.S. Thanks for the info, I didn't know mike green had it as well!!

[StevenAg03]

i posted a pic of his earlier in the thread....here ill post it again...

oh and i meant brunett......only time i really met here was at gordonsthat one day and she pretty much sat in the truck...

[Doug Krebs]

haha ok, i just emailed him asking him a ****load of questions. I've talked with him before. Thanks again for the link

[CRaSHnBuRN]

Keep us updated on what you find. I've always been interested in this, and would like to see how others have done it. It might be a good project to work into my buggy I plan on starting on once the yota is finished, except in my case I would retain a normal suspension such as leafs and coils, and just use the rams in place of the shocks

[Graystroke]

Or just use airbags, they'll work better. less PSI to get it to raise since you have a larger DIA than the cylinder. THINK Big rigs...8" DIA, 125PSI and they can hold 20K lbs a piece. Range Rovers have been riding on bags since 1993 and they do raise when they are hung. The computer senses a high center situation and can raise individual bags. I've seen it work and it works well.