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View Full Version : Duramax v. Cummins v. Powerstroke



Krawler68
06-05-2002, 11:50 AM
lets hear it... I'm shopping for a pavement pounder trailer rig... I like the Duramax acoutrements (niceties)... but I'm worried about their abilities and longevity...

Broncocustom
06-05-2002, 12:21 PM
I would wait at least another year before deciding to go with the Duramax, just so they have some more time to work out problems the new engine might have. As far as the ford or dodge either are good engines. Both still have problems with there tranny's. Scott and I both get about the same miles per gallon. You know how I feel about Fords they have more torque and horsepower than the dodge but they also have 2 more cylinders. Both engines have many performance parts while the chevy only has a few on the market at this time.

AgDieseler
06-05-2002, 12:27 PM
Don't wait too long for a Dmax. GM is about to make their front clip change to the heavy duties, it's going to look something like he avalanche. Pretty crappy styling if you ask me, but you can't go wrong with a HO Cummins with the NV5600 six-speed.

Krawler68
06-05-2002, 12:43 PM
I'd already be sold on the cummins if it just came in a 4 door... damn Dodges... I may wait around for the 2003 6.0 liter fords to come out...

mark
06-05-2002, 01:53 PM
All three of the trucks seem to be quite good at what they do. The only area that any of them have a clear advantage is in noise. Advantage D-Max. In all other respects they are neck in neck or soon will be as Ford and Dodge play catchup in the HP wars. I would choose based on the truck that the engine is surrounded with. For 2003, there is a new 4 door Dodge and restyling along with an interior revamp is on for GM. Power increases are on tap for both Ford (325hp/550lb-ft) and Dodge (305hp/555lb-ft). Dodge gets a tougher frame as well. While GM has a 5 speed auto, Ford will introduce one with their HO engine in early 2003. If you do want the GM stuff, but can't stomach the Chevy's styling, GMC's new styling is worth looking at.

-Mark

Broncocustom
06-05-2002, 02:07 PM
I like to hear when the turbo kicks in, which you can not do on the chevy.

Krawler68
06-05-2002, 02:14 PM
I just like the nice things that chebbys have... comfort factor is WAYYYYY higher... Ford And Dodge don't push the comfort issues...
I like diesel noise too... but I'd be willing to sacrifice it for better performance...

Chadnutz
06-05-2002, 09:49 PM
Why don't you make this a vote to see which truck is the most popular of the three?

My friend's uncles own a big plumbing company in San Antonio - Aramendia Plumbing Co - and they have both powerstrokes and duramaxes. Uncle says powerstroke pulls the same trailer better
but the chebby drives nicer. Who cares about driving nicer?! Heh, maybe I will one day, but I've ridden in a few F-250 4x4 Powerstrokes and they were a HELL of a lot more comfortable than the Mazda. Man diesels rule.

Check out the Banks power system article in the Fourwheeler magazine. They boast 91 hp improvment and 200 ft/lb torque improvement. They dyno tested an FW truck and it got +80 and +201 at the rear wheels making a grand total of 294/660. What Cummins? I didn't pass any Dodge, did I?

Broncocustom
06-06-2002, 07:38 AM
If you go with a 4x4 the dodge and ford still have a solid front axle. I know this does not mater that much on a pull vehicle but I thought I would still point it out.

Krawler68
06-06-2002, 10:36 AM
A nicer driving truck Does matter to me these days...I am carrying around ALOT of investors and doing work with older people whose kidneys can't handle the banging around.

IFS doesn't matter to me really...this thing will only see 4wd when it snows...

redcagepatrol
06-10-2002, 09:47 AM
After towing heavy loads with all three, I put the Chebby last with a toss-up between the Ford and Dodge. The Chevy just doesn't feel like a truck. The sitting position, steering wheel, dash, and controls make you feel like you are driving a car and don't help while towing 15,000 plus pounds behind you. What I hated while driving the D-max with Allison was the LACK of engine and turbo noise. Sure it's nice for daily driving but when towing it IS A NECESSITY to keep from buring up the tranny and save on fuel millage. When you can't hear the engine you can't hear the load on it to let of the gas a little to avoid unneeded downshifts. Downshifts on every small hill can get real annoying.

One more problem with the D-Max is the tranny/engine cutting out. That drive by wire stuff sucks, it's all electronic and has was too many quircks for me. If you get a D-max, a Standard is a must.

redcagepatrol
06-10-2002, 09:53 AM
Originally posted by Broncocustom
I would wait at least another year before deciding to go with the Duramax, just so they have some more time to work out problems the new engine might have. As far as the ford or dodge either are good engines. Both still have problems with there tranny's. Scott and I both get about the same miles per gallon. You know how I feel about Fords they have more torque and horsepower than the dodge but they also have 2 more cylinders. Both engines have many performance parts while the chevy only has a few on the market at this time.

About the MPG,
James must remember that I have a 5" lift and 35" tires...

Krawler68
06-10-2002, 10:11 AM
I remembered your lift and tires... I think I'm sold on a Dodge in the somewhat near future... I went and drove a new one with the 6 speed... that was one bad mutha...I don't care what the HP ratings are... it kicked butt... I got 18 MPG in town burning the tires through three gears at every stoplight... and I got it to 105 MPH on the highway before I chickened out...

AgDieseler
06-10-2002, 12:04 PM
Another nice thing about the Cummins is that of the big three, they're the cheapest to upgrade. Everything from hard components to electronics is a damn sight cheaper than anything offered for the powerstroke. Also, aside from exhaust and a few electronic gadgets, there isn't too much currently available for the Dmax.

mark
06-11-2002, 11:57 AM
In Defense of the Dmax Allison combo, although there is not much available in terms of hard parts, reprogramming the boost levels, rev limits and shifting characteristics of the truck is fairly straitforward. There is a lot of power to be had by flashing the computer. The Allison is a nice tranny, but not terribly efficient in terms of powertrain losses. Are any autos? But it is a nice combo and a far sight better than the old 6.2 4L80E combo.

Personal preferences aside, Chevy now makes a damn good truck.

Personally I like the 8100 ZF 6 speed combo in the GM products and will probably make that my next vehicular purchase.

I hate diesels.:D Vroooooooooooooooom...sssssssssss.....Varooooooooo oooooommm....sssssssssss

-Mark

davido
06-11-2002, 11:08 PM
Originally posted by mark
Vroooooooooooooooom...sssssssssss.....Varooooooooo oooooommm....sssssssssss

-Mark

Is that the super charger winding down between shifts? :eek:

Chadnutz
06-12-2002, 07:17 AM
I don't think it's a super charger, but it could be a turbo charger. ;) Diesels own gas motors. Enjoy your gallons per mile Mark

mark
06-12-2002, 08:40 AM
Gas mileage is not on the option list for the 8100.

I am not worried about mileage anyway. The way I see it, the 8100 will get about the same mileage as my Jeep!

If I wanted mileage, I would drive a Golden Bubble. (oh wait. i do.)

-Mark

DRAGOONRANCH
05-25-2006, 01:37 PM
Well, I slipped back to the graveyard today :flipoff2:

I think the diesel wars will rage even harder in the near future, they are going to keep trying to up the mileage and horsepower. Dodge has come along ways with their new trucks (Mega Cab), but the thing still looks like a bread box on 'roids. Chevy has had decent luck with the Dmax, and no one will contest the ride the chebys have. Ford has taken it in the *** lately with the 6.0, but I think that most of that has been taken care of (but not before they drove away alot of customers). I will say that the fords over here are run around between 5 and 15 mph, and take the jp-8 like a champ. The only thing you have to watch for is the oil, if you do not keep good synth in it, the engine runs like crap. A diesel will do just fine at idle all day long, but they were meant to get up to speed and keep you there. I would have bought a Dmax 4dr dually 6spd 4x4 if I could have found one when I was buying, but ford had the best deal on the truck I wanted sans the 6spd (came with the new 5spd auto which is not a bad tranny so far). I might have bought a dodge, but the dealer I went to is terrible and I hope it burns to the ground. They had a truck there that I liked, but the back seat in the 4door was no bigger than the old ex-cab chevy i drove. It was a manual though, but they wanted more for it than the ford i bought. :confused: A 6spd will go in the ford if i ever smoke the auto, that should be an interesting swap. I had a 6spd 7.3 ps combo in a work truck and it was awesome.

bburris
05-25-2006, 01:40 PM
I believe Powerstrokes will be featuring an extra turbo from the factory in the near future.

jerryg79
05-25-2006, 01:45 PM
Well, I slipped back to the graveyard today :flipoff2:

I think the diesel wars will rage even harder in the near future, they are going to keep trying to up the mileage and horsepower. Dodge has come along ways with their new trucks (Mega Cab), but the thing still looks like a bread box on 'roids. Chevy has had decent luck with the Dmax, and no one will contest the ride the chebys have. Ford has taken it in the *** lately with the 6.0, but I think that most of that has been taken care of (but not before they drove away alot of customers). I will say that the fords over here are run around between 5 and 15 mph, and take the jp-8 like a champ. The only thing you have to watch for is the oil, if you do not keep good synth in it, the engine runs like crap. A diesel will do just fine at idle all day long, but they were meant to get up to speed and keep you there. I would have bought a Dmax 4dr dually 6spd 4x4 if I could have found one when I was buying, but ford had the best deal on the truck I wanted sans the 6spd (came with the new 5spd auto which is not a bad tranny so far). I might have bought a dodge, but the dealer I went to is terrible and I hope it burns to the ground. They had a truck there that I liked, but the back seat in the 4door was no bigger than the old ex-cab chevy i drove. It was a manual though, but they wanted more for it than the ford i bought. :confused: A 6spd will go in the ford if i ever smoke the auto, that should be an interesting swap. I had a 6spd 7.3 ps combo in a work truck and it was awesome.

What year was the extended cab chevy, the back seat in my dodge is WAAAAYYYY bigger than in my chevy....

Chadnutz
05-25-2006, 02:15 PM
Emissions will restrict power in the future, ESPECIALLY on modifications...

agjohn02
05-25-2006, 02:25 PM
Emissions will restrict power in the future, ESPECIALLY on modifications...

pfft, what do you know... :flipoff2:

BMFScout
05-25-2006, 02:32 PM
pfft, what do you know... :flipoff2:

no seriously, What do you know? Give us some insider information, we won't leak it!
I do find it ironic that you are still in my territory, and work for one of our customers, even though we both switched jobs.

DRAGOONRANCH
05-26-2006, 01:45 AM
Ok, let me clear it up, I should have said it was not as comfortable as the 97 cheby, and not much more room. There is no way my g-parents would ride in the back seat of the dodge for extended periods of time (grandpa's back dictates a good ride, hence the '06 Dmax he just bought). Dodge has a hellfua engine under the hood, 12V or 24V they are both good engines and the only reason dodge sells as well as it does. If they could just get the body right, make it a little more comfortable to ride in and not fall apart around the frame, then they would have something going on. This is just my opinion though. I still say a Chevy truck with a ford suspension and a cummins engine would be the ultimate truck

jerryg79
05-26-2006, 11:35 AM
Ok, let me clear it up, I should have said it was not as comfortable as the 97 cheby, and not much more room. There is no way my g-parents would ride in the back seat of the dodge for extended periods of time (grandpa's back dictates a good ride, hence the '06 Dmax he just bought). Dodge has a hellfua engine under the hood, 12V or 24V they are both good engines and the only reason dodge sells as well as it does. If they could just get the body right, make it a little more comfortable to ride in and not fall apart around the frame, then they would have something going on. This is just my opinion though. I still say a Chevy truck with a ford suspension and a cummins engine would be the ultimate truck

the seat in a chevrolet extended cab is straight up and down and about 2/3 as deep as my dodge....i havent heard anyone having problems with the bodies on the newer dodges either, except maybe the door seals that get pinched and wear out if you classify that as "body"

uglyota
05-26-2006, 11:43 AM
except they're ugly and have that football field of sheet metal stuck in the blind spot just so they could have the biggest quad cab evar!

jerryg79
05-26-2006, 11:47 AM
except they're ugly and have that football field of sheet metal stuck in the blind spot just so they could have the biggest quad cab evar!

I'm guessing youre talking about the megacab?

uglyota
05-26-2006, 11:48 AM
yeah...I meant the blind spot makes them ugly. I think the others look good

Chadnutz
05-26-2006, 12:55 PM
Well for one thing, as soon as the diesel particulate filters go on you won't just be able to turn your juice up because you'll be loading and regenerating your filter far too often. Anyone who wants some real balls will have to stick with an older truck, although I feel like if mine is only a little more powerful that a new one I'd trade for it and no smoke. I have to smoke bad to get their power... They are making enough now that I don't really see the need to modify them anymore...

For current diesel owners, when they go to ultra low sulpher fuel we will most likely have to use stanadyne type lubricant additives. Don't try investing in Stanadyne, however. They aren't publicly traded. Trust me, I've checked.

Graystroke
05-27-2006, 12:28 AM
For current diesel owners, when they go to ultra low sulpher fuel we will most likely have to use stanadyne type lubricant additives. Don't try investing in Stanadyne, however. They aren't publicly traded. Trust me, I've checked.
...or just stick some biodiesl in there. It will lubricate it better than your current dino diesel and have the nice aroma of popcorn coming from the tailpipe.

DRAGOONRANCH
05-27-2006, 12:45 AM
Well for one thing, as soon as the diesel particulate filters go on you won't just be able to turn your juice up because you'll be loading and regenerating your filter far too often. Anyone who wants some real balls will have to stick with an older truck, although I feel like if mine is only a little more powerful that a new one I'd trade for it and no smoke. I have to smoke bad to get their power... They are making enough now that I don't really see the need to modify them anymore...

For current diesel owners, when they go to ultra low sulpher fuel we will most likely have to use stanadyne type lubricant additives. Don't try investing in Stanadyne, however. They aren't publicly traded. Trust me, I've checked.

Nutz,

do you have any links to these new requirements and particulate filters you speak of, as I will be looking to buy a work truck in the next few years and want to have one bought before this stuff is in place. This will probably be a F-550 or the like.

sasquatch
05-27-2006, 01:52 AM
i thought they started installing that **** in the 07 model year

DRAGOONRANCH
05-27-2006, 02:11 AM
Crap, that means I will have to start shopping soon.

Seth
05-27-2006, 08:39 AM
yeah the fleet trucking mag that i read at work ws talking about it starting in the 07 model year - that was heavy duty trucks though.

AgDieseler
05-28-2006, 09:24 AM
The new 6.7L Cummins should be interesting. The Dmax is also expected to move to a two-stage turbo system in the near future.

CheapJeep
05-28-2006, 01:01 PM
One thing I've noticed on my mom's 01 d-max is that sometimes the allison will slip a little bit under alot of power. On the newer models up to 04 I've heard that they don't do it, but now they came out with the LBZ code thing or whatever in 05 which puts out 650ft lbs. and 380 hp. I know they upgraded the allison too but I don't see how manufacturers are going to be able to continue creating more power without doing some serious h.d. mod's to the tranny's.

DRAGOONRANCH
05-28-2006, 01:11 PM
If I throw the juice to the stroke, the tranny has trouble adjusting unless I take it easy for a little while before I romp on it. I would like to dyno mine, but I am guessing it is around 450 - 500 hp, and 750+ f/lbs. I really like the new 5spd auto ford has, I guess it is their answer to the allison. I still would prefer the 6spd, but that will have to wait for the 5spd to xplod. :gigem:

Sharpe
05-28-2006, 01:16 PM
The manufacturers prolong the life of the drivetrain by severely moderating the power of the engine. There is a guy on coloradok5 who has swapped 2 chevy 6.0L's and one 8.1 into early blazers and naturally, he had to fully learn the wiring and computer functions to do the swaps. He said that even on the 6.0, the computer is programed to withhold power most of the time, so you can imagine how much the diesels are regulated. He was saying he disables the moderating feature when he does the swaps and one the first truck he did, it has gone through three trannies allready. They have 4L85E's which arent quite as strong as allisons but are plenty beefy in themselves.

DRAGOONRANCH
05-28-2006, 01:27 PM
I would love to learn how to program a diesel and see just what it would do. The only thing holding the engine back is the material it is made of and keeping the oil from burning up. Kind of like a turbine engine, it will run itself till it melts down. There are ways of improving the air and fuel intake to the point the engine couldnt keep up.

uglyota
05-29-2006, 06:05 PM
anybody know anything about the diesel Toyota's offering in the 07 Tundra?

Chadnutz
05-29-2006, 06:31 PM
If I throw the juice to the stroke, the tranny has trouble adjusting unless I take it easy for a little while before I romp on it. I would like to dyno mine, but I am guessing it is around 450 - 500 hp, and 750+ f/lbs. I really like the new 5spd auto ford has, I guess it is their answer to the allison. I still would prefer the 6spd, but that will have to wait for the 5spd to xplod. :gigem:

So what mods do you have? There aren't many Powerstrokes out there that put down 500 hp. If you don't have big ass injectors you certainly aren't. Your tranny probably wouldn't hold up past 350 hp as most with autos grenade them and have to get a BTS tranny. My mods give most people 350 at the wheels and my clutch slips if I drag it too long. You might be disappointed with what the dyno tells you...

robertf03
05-29-2006, 06:35 PM
The manufacturers prolong the life of the drivetrain by severely moderating the power of the engine. There is a guy on coloradok5 who has swapped 2 chevy 6.0L's and one 8.1 into early blazers and naturally, he had to fully learn the wiring and computer functions to do the swaps. He said that even on the 6.0, the computer is programed to withhold power most of the time, so you can imagine how much the diesels are regulated. He was saying he disables the moderating feature when he does the swaps and one the first truck he did, it has gone through three trannies allready. They have 4L85E's which arent quite as strong as allisons but are plenty beefy in themselves.


sounds like he's messing with the trans shifting and pressure tables, not the engine configuration. The only power they hold back is for emissions such as spark timing to keep the chamber temp low so NOx doesn't form.

of course the transmission will blow up if you get the pressure too high, but it sure will shift strong and feel like big power.

fbronco86
05-29-2006, 10:07 PM
anybody know anything about the diesel Toyota's offering in the 07 Tundra?

Its prob the same motor they have been using down in south america.

eight
05-29-2006, 10:44 PM
I heard something about dodge making the megacab in a longbed in the future. And the next version of the expedition is supposed to be longer to replace the excursion and available with a diesel.

DRAGOONRANCH
05-30-2006, 08:28 AM
I thought they already made the monstosity they call the megacab with a longbed, I swore I saw a dually with it while I was home last time. :confused: Oh well, may have been an alchohol induced vision.

TMatheaus
05-30-2006, 09:23 AM
I thought they already made the monstosity they call the megacab with a longbed, I swore I saw a dually with it while I was home last time. :confused: Oh well, may have been an alchohol induced vision.
i saw one of them mega cab dually's while i was at home last week, they are some ugly bastards

jerryg79
05-30-2006, 09:38 AM
i saw one of them mega cab dually's while i was at home last week, they are some ugly bastards

agreed

StevenAg03
05-30-2006, 09:53 AM
i seen something that i hope is not the future of dodge duallys. me and lisa were at a dodge dealership here in katy, and i noticed these fender flare looking things on the rear of a heavy duty truck. upon closer inspection revealed that it was a dually and the flare was the rear fender much like that of early models.

someone please tell me that these arent the new style of dually fenders...

DRAGOONRANCH
05-30-2006, 09:55 AM
i seen something that i hope is not the future of dodge duallys. me and lisa were at a dodge dealership here in katy, and i noticed these fender flare looking things on the rear of a heavy duty truck. upon closer inspection revealed that it was a dually and the flare was the rear fender much like that of early models.

someone please tell me that these arent the new style of dually fenders...

What else do you expect from the numnuts at chrysler. :flipoff2:

jerryg79
05-30-2006, 10:07 AM
i seen something that i hope is not the future of dodge duallys. me and lisa were at a dodge dealership here in katy, and i noticed these fender flare looking things on the rear of a heavy duty truck. upon closer inspection revealed that it was a dually and the flare was the rear fender much like that of early models.

someone please tell me that these arent the new style of dually fenders...

I'm assuming it was a megacab, in which case that is the way they did it due to the shortbed.....it looks retarded.

sasquatch
05-30-2006, 10:29 AM
What else do you expect from the numnuts at chrysler. :flipoff2:

***, i agree with that

Shaggy
06-01-2006, 02:40 PM
megacab is mega gay and my stepdad is looking at one