Electric fans

[aggielr]

I think I'm going to use electric fans rather than put the flex fan back on the 304. I've found some of the universal thermostats through Summit, but I was wondering if anyone here had a good source w/ lower prices. I don't want some cheap pile of crap, but if its decent quality and cheaper than $60 I'd be interested.

And a 16", 2400 CFM fan should work well enough to keep the V-8 cool right?

[uglyota]

I've had bad luck trying to figure out what aftermarket thermoelectric switches are available. What did you find, prices, etc?
Get a taurus (lincoln, sable?) fan and wire the high speed to your thermo switch (through a relay), low speed to a key-off auxiliary switch in the cab, and an in-cab override switch to shut off everything.

[aggielr]

Summit has 2

High temp (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=PRF%2D30102)

low temp (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=PRF%2D30103)

EDIT: forgot this one (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=FLX%2D31147)

[uglyota]

Cool...did you find any of the type that just has a little copper bulb that you stick in your upper radiator hose (they come with flex-a-lite kits, but I don't know if you can get them separate)? Do you think I could have a piece of tubing made to put inline with a radiator hose that would hold that screw-in thermostat (since I bet it's not metric)? Thanks
Edit: that's what I was looking for!

[aggielr]

i might try going to the parts house and runnin through the catalog and finding a switch that fits in the stock thermostat housing on top of the intake and wiring it myself using a manual switch inside as a back up if i ever want to turn it off or if something goes out, i can easily bypass the temp switch and run it manually, but i don't want the one that you stick under the radiator hose like the last one i posted, i'd rather have one like the first 2

[Chadnutz]

:rolleyes:

You know it was coming! :flipoff2:

[aggielr]

what was coming?

[eight]

Landon. I allready went through napa's books and any I wanted were about $40 and not in stock. Most of the switches turned on above 200 degrees and I was looking for something more like 180. Then I found an adjustable switch kit at autozone for about $17 and bought that. Then instead of hooking the fans to it like its instructions said, I bought 2 relays to run em (2 12" fans) off of. Then I put all this stuff on the shelf in my shed.

[aggielr]

so are u sellin all this stuff you've got or just waitin for some time to put it together? either way let me know, i'd like to come check out the install and get an idea of how to do mine or we can try it on mine and see if you want to try it

[eight]

I'm keeping it untill I get motivation to do it again. I had to move the radiator forward to fit them and then noticed that I didn't need them anymore cause I finally had enough room between the stock fan and the radiator. And one pissed me off when it bit my finger. You can come look at it if you want. I should get home at 4:30 today or I could bring the switch to the meeting tomorrow. I never really even looked at the switch to know how it mounts or anything.

[aggielr]

yea, bring it to the meeting, i'll take a look at it, see if it'll work for me, if not, guess i'll see who i know at the parts house :D

[Tariqui]

this is the switch i used on my fan its at summit racing there isnt a url but there is a part number DER-16749 if you look it up on summit it is there its adjustable 150-240 degrees witha 3/8 probe that i skrewed into a port on my intake manifold. its only like 40 bucks

[uglyota]

Josh...is this thing essentially the same as the last one landon posted, except that it screws in? This port on your intake manifold puts the probe in your coolant? You gonna be at the meeting?

[Tariqui]

the probe is directly in the coolant if i unscrew it fluid comes out and it is the same as the one he posted i think just that it is no a painless wiring kit and is 20 bucks cheaper i will be at meeting on wed night

[uglyota]

anybody know where I can get a 3/8"NPT bung?

[stx4wheeler]

the one that came on my bronco is a flexalite unit that has that brass part that goes in the radiator hose like eric mentioned, and mine doesnt have a temp switch just a control that i chose how much and fast it should be running or not at all. I think mine is like a 15 inch or 16 inchdoes fine all winter long but under serious mud and sand it wants to get hot during the summer, but that is just because the radiator in my bronco is not the stock one and isnt big enough to cool the 460. you should be fine with the 15-16 inch in your jeep landon. just my .02

[BigRedFord04]

as long as you have a temp gauge and you're not a retard, thermostatic switches are :rainbow: I would also think twice about running a crapload of current thru a relay. i melted a couple of them on my fan setup before i switched to a solenoid that can handle 80 amps. the solenoid was like $17, Borg Warner p/n S55. it looks like a standard Ford starter solenoid, but those wouldnt work either because they're part-time. this one is 80A full-time duty. i ran power from an ignition switch source to the switch in the dash, then out to the power in on the solenoid. battery power comes in one side of the solenoid then goes out to the fans. if you ever want to turn them off you just turn the switch off like you said. when its cold like it has been i hardly ever turn them on and the heater warms up a lot faster :D. i did this drawing for a tech writing project a while back.

[aggielr]

yea, i know thermal switches are :rainbow: , but they're easy and kustom :flipoff2: , i'm going to run a thermal switch and a manual one inline just in case

[uglyota]

okay, here's another one
does the relay (or solenoid) eliminate the need for diodes to prevent feedback through the system as the fan winds down?

[uglyota]

you just wish you had fuel infection like me so you could worry about frying your electronics :flipoff2:

[Tariqui]

holy crap you all are making this thing way more complicated than it really is. My fan pulls like 26 amps at start up and 21 while running and puts out 2500 cfm. it is switched to come on at like 170 degress. i installed a manual shut off so i can turn it off when i want. the thermo switch i bought hookes from the battery by a fused link with 35 amp fuse and then connects to the fan. It took me all of 30 mintues to cut wires to length and install it. i have no idea what starter solenoids and diodes have to do with wiring in an electric fan spend 39.75 from summit racing and get one it has a 3 year warranty on it

[aggielr]

i think Austin might have had a problem trying to run 2 fans on one relay, but i can't remember if that's how he had it set up

if he did, that explains the need for a HUGE relay (starter solenoid)

[BigRedFord04]

yes, there was only one relay in the original "kit" i bought that was supposed to be for wiring up foglights. the relays burned up. thermo switches are very :rainbow: and i kinda see them as ONE MORE THING to leak should a problem occur.

[uglyota]

is a solenoid just a big relay?

[aggielr]

some of them are, some are continuous duty and some are part-time, most starter solenoids are part-time, meaning they only handle large currents for short periods of time, but the ones Austin is using are more like the relay's they sell in those kits, except his is rated to something like 80-100 amps i believe

[uglyota]

aight so if a tore-ass fan can pull up to 130 amps at startup, is it gonna burn up a solenoid that's rated to 80amps continuous?
PS Austin is the solenoid on your diagram missing a ground?

[stinger7401]

its grounded through the mounts, and by the way, electric fans are :rainbow: , manual fan will never go out, burn your vehicle to the ground, draw to many amps, short out your fuel injection system or kill your alternator/battery.

Have had a manual on my jeep for years, been to the llano many times, crossed deep rivers in colorado and have never had a problem.

[BigRedFord04]

hey! mine's only caught on fire once! i would think that the part time load on the solenoid i have would be higher than the continuous load. the thing gets pretty hot when its running full time. and yes, on the diagram it is missing the ground, wont work w/o it. and, nick, i actually did see a rather dramatic change in HP and gas mileage right after switching to electric fans. less drag on the motor.

[Shaggy]

landon, doug said he had a "badass taurus fan" he would sell to you for $60

[aggielr]

only $60, wow how could he sell it so cheap? I think i'll just make a trip out to the boneyard and pick the one up out there for $30, thanks though

[Chadnutz]

Austin.....I don't think Nick mentioned HP. I think he was talking about reliability and not ruining a motor due to the fans failing or failing to turn them on.

[AgDieseler]

Not to mention that when that fan clutch locks up there's enough air drawn to suck a cat through the grill. No electric fan setup moves as much as a good old fan and fan clutch. I think the setup I have is rated at 15000cfm at 2000rpm with the clutch locked. But on the trail when things are slow, an electric fan may make more sense.

[aggielr]

Originally posted by AgDieseler
But on the trail when things are slow, an electric fan may make more sense.

this is what i'm getting at, this is for a mostly trial driven vehicle, i like mechanical fans on my DD, but for a slow going trail rig, a fan w/ a clutch won't work as well as an electric, a flex fan works well, but those damn things are sharp as ****, i've cut my hands on them just tryin to tighten bolts on the front of the engine (and no it was not running :flipoff2: )

[chevsu]

electric fans are :rainbow:

they wouldn't cool my truck at all. so i ditched that junk and went with a mechanical fan

[Moose]

Originally posted by AgDieseler
No electric fan setup moves as much as a good old fan and fan clutch. But on the trail when things are slow, an electric fan may make more sense.

I have dual electric 14" Flexalites on my 99-f150 w/a 5.4L with the copper tube into the radiator hose with the variable control module and overide off switch and the overide on switch. It pulls like a sonofa at stop n go traffic. It also does give me a few extra horses that the clutch steals. And I'd have to say it pulls more than my 18" flex fan also from flexalite. But when it comes on, it uses about 3-400 rpm from the alternator. I hate it! And I've had more issues with it draining my battery, wire guage issues (I run at least 10 guage wire everywhere), and simply remembering to turn off the overide off switch (I have it wired into the A/C compressor too. So, on the highway, all I need is the wind to keep the air cool. But in Houston, I'm constantly driving on the highway and city streets. anyway!) I'm always so stressed about making sure switches are in the right position and that the fans are acutally going to come on when the coolant gets hot. I've got 3 fuses I have to maintain.

And on the trail, I'd have to say go with a mechanical fan. I guess with small cylinder engines, you may have to worry about mechanical fans robbing horsepower. But I'd rather guarantee my block will stay cool than loosing 15 to 25 hp. Hell, that's what 4 low is for. If anything, have at least a mechanical. If you're worried it's not enough, ADD an electric pusher fan btwn the grill and radiator. The cooler the better. These older trucks and jeeps don't care if the coolant is cooler than normal.

[uglyota]

Originally posted by Moose
But I'd rather guarantee my block will stay cool than loosing 15 to 25 hp.
Holy crap! That's like 25% more power! It'll feel like a supercharger!

[BigRedFord04]

i will always contend that electric fans are the way to go. peope just seem to overcomplicate things with all kinds of switches and relays and a bunch of other unnecessary bull****. if you wire it into the ignition switch you'll never have to worry about whether or not its on. put the bypass switch in the circuit so you CAN turn it off, but dont have to. i guess personally i'd rather have the control over it than rely on a sensor. 15000cfm? who friggin cares? you only need ~2500 to adequately cool a small block. mine pull ~1800 each. and as for overdrawing on the alternator....get a bigger alternator. with all the computer, electronics, stereo and other BS you probably need it anyway. mine's rated @ 144amps. i had it tested and it was putting out just over 200.

[uglyota]

speaking of which...
does anybody know of a good local alternator shop that can rewind a stock alternator and make it bad ass? Prices?

[jerryg79]

ask grayson, he had a starter rebuilt at some place in bryan and i think they did alternators too.

Is that pertinent enough, hope i dont get moderated now...LICK 'EM!!

[eight]

Josh, did your jeep seem to have more power after the electric fans?

[BMFScout]

here is a krusty schematic to illustrate how mine are ran. I run dodge intrepid fans which i think are superior to cli-taurus fans because they are a dual fan set-up with a shroud that fits scout radiators perfectly and are thin, plus the twin set-up allows to set a fan motor on either side of the water pump pulley. I am controlling the ground side of the relay like the factory does and right now the temperature switch I am running is a factory 210 or whatever that is hotter than i would like it to be. If I ever get the scout running again, I will buy a low temp one from jeg's or some place. I use the big round GM relays for everything electrical because they are easy to "obtain" with the connectors from any jy, and are at EVERY parts store, and I can carry one spare for everything, lights, fuel pump, fans, etc...

[Tariqui]

my jeep did seem to have better take off but i dont know for sure if it gave me anymore horses and i had my alterator built up by a place in OKC they made it 150 amps for $50 but i guess that doesnt help since we are in college station.

[Seth]

OK - I searched. Gonna put an electric fan on my truck. Relatively soon, as my fan clutch isn't doing much and it is going to get warm soon. I have a fan already. I have a 135 amp alternator, so that's stayin. I've got wiring, or at least know what and where to get it. Of course, I'm lookin for a good deal, and also dependable.

Somewhere on here or maybe FSB, I saw a link to a guy selling prefab harnesses. Anyone know what I am talking about? Frick? Will? John Brown?

So I know I am going to need a relay or solenoid. I am not real great at reading wiring diagrams, but once I have it in my hands I am ok. I would like the fan to use temp only to turn off and on. Since it is a single, I don't even know that I want it to automatically come on with the AC. Just on at 185ish, and off at 170.

The biggest thing I don't know about is the sensor and fan control box. I know there is debate on where to put the sensors that stick in the radiator, but are there sensors that go in the thermostat housing instead?

I have looked around for good write-ups, and have not found anything great yet, if anyone knows of one, it would be appreciated.

I am sure when I am done with this, I will realize how simple it is, but I am trying to get my bases covered so my truck is not down for more than a saturday.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

Use this to wire up your relay.

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10001_10002_753117_-1_11471

[robertf03]

Seth, on Mike Mike Knoellers bronco we tried setting up a chip to use the built in eec-iv fan control thats normally disabled on trucks. I don't know how it ended up for him since he had some other problems, but in theory you could do the same and not mess with those fan temp control things. Then you would just run the fan control wire that you would have to add to the harness (not hard, and I think oreillys sells the pins in the helpme section) that grounds the relay that controls the fan.

[Seth]

Flem - let's do it. Maybe in three weeks?

[robertf03]

ok, but theres a catch. you have to buy some chit. It might be cheaper to do the auxiliary sending unit, but I think this way is more reliable.

http://www.moates.net/product_info.php?cPath=25_35&products_id=101

or if you can find any other "chip" for a ford of that vintage it will work, we can hack it up and socket it to take an eprom.


Hey do they have any female spade connectors at work that are smaller than 1/4"? Think you could tell me how much a pocket full of them weighs? I'm curious.

[Seth]

The idea of the chip is cool, and doesnt look to be much more. I know if anyone I know can make it happen, it's gonna be you.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

Flemco in a Ford, say it aint so....

[Seth]

He's a bit of an eec-iv guru.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

He's a bit of an eec-iv guru.

I know, I was just jealous cause I got's no cool wiring in da cheby. :(

Maybe I get him to help me when I go 8.1/zf6. :eek:

[jerryg79]

Flemco in a Ford, say it aint so....

I think it all started on a crappy f150.

[Fredo]

Nah, I think it all started with Flem and I laughing our asses off at a North Texas Binders meeting where this scout douche was bragging about his fuel injection with his system with the knock sensor screwed into the valve cover breather hole. I think we did Lurch before the F150, but I don't really remember...we did a lot of drinking during those.

[Sharpe]

Flem they sell 3/16" male and female spade connectors at napa.

[robertf03]

Nah, I think it all started with Flem and I laughing our asses off at a North Texas Binders meeting where this scout douche was bragging about his fuel injection with his system with the knock sensor screwed into the valve cover breather hole. I think we did Lurch before the F150, but I don't really remember...we did a lot of drinking during those.

Lurch was first, but we had been talking about doing it way before we saw bill's pile, and I think we actually had some parts and schematics.

[Seth]

Would a starter solenoid handle efans, or would it not handle constant loads?

[robertf03]

Would a starter solenoid handle efans, or would it not handle constant loads?


I was reading a book in evans that had the formulas to calculate relay ratings.

I can't remember the formulas, but I came to the conclusion that if it can handle 600amps for 30 seconds, 50 amps forever should not be a problem

[Fredo]

I've seen some guys use ford style solenoids to control fans, but I'm a big fan of relays. In my mind, a starter solenoid wasn't designed for a constant load. If you are running two fans, I would recommend two relays. I used to have one 40amp relay on my camaro fans and it melted down a relay when one of the fan motors let go while cruising in Detroit for the Dreamcruise. So basically, it worked, but if one fan motor fails and takes out the relay, the other one goes down too. The reason I made this mistake on the camaro was because from the factory, the RS models only had one large cooling fan with one relay, while the Z28's had two fans with two relays which I didn't realize, so I put the dual fan setup on and just wired them both to the same relay not knowing any better. With that said, I made the same mistake on Lurch when I setup those fans, but I have been too lazy to do anything about it. I've lost a fan motor on Lurch too, but got lucky that it didn't take out the relay and just simply unplugged the offending motor and made it back to the AA in clayton on one fan. So, it all basically comes down to redundancy.

[Seth]

I am planning on running a single fan. I guess I can just look up whatever the stock app used and buy that one. Is a 40 amp good for the start up surge?

[Sharpe]

I have windstar dual fans with ghetto-riffic 30 amp relays in pigpen. A single 30 amp relay per fan is not enough, on my suburban I had one relay per fan and the fans killed relays occasionally. On pigpen, I have two relays wired in parrallel per fan. Its ghetto, but its hella cheaper than a single 50-60 amp relay per fan.