Question for the Toyota Boys

[Fredo]

Recently My dad picked up a '92 pickup with a 22RE and a 5spd to drive back and forth to work to save some gas. It appears to be in pretty good shape mechanically except for one problem. Ever since we got it a few weeks ago, it has had a wierd bog right off the line and just kind of acted sluggish. Like it had no timing advance. Well, after a little checking with the timing light and the test connector shorted, I found that it had like 12 degrees of initial timing which is like twice of what it's supposed to have. Then as soon as you revved it, it actually retarded the timing to damn near TDC. I thought maybe the test connector was why it wouldn't advance, so I took the paper clip out of the connector, restarted it and it proceeded to do the same thing. We yanked the valve cover and checked out the timing chain, and found that the driver's side chain guide had pretty much broken apart, so we blew it apart and put a new timing set in it, checked out everything else and put it back together. I set the timing to 5 or 6 degrees...whatever it said under the hood, and proceeded to remove the test connector and fired it back up. Revved it back up and it did it again, but this time it was like 10* retared. Running like ****. So just so it's driveable, i set it back up at about 12*. I think I got it to display the codes correctly and apparently everything that the computer knew about was working properly.

I'm thinking one of three things.....
1. Nasty vacuum leak that I can't find
2. Something in the distributor pickup is reversed somehow and it's retarding instead of advancing timing
3. Throttle position sensor is messed up and the computer is too stupid to realize it.

Anway, my knowledge of toyota ignition and fuel injection systems is far less than my knowledge of GM systems. If any of you guys have an idea or have run into this problem before...let me know.

[uglyota]

That trucks fuct...I'll take it off your hands :flipoff2:

First test the AFM. There are a set of different resistances that need to be just right, and the AFM can cause similar problems. Clean the flapper door out real good with the Non-chlor. brake cleaner...sometimes they get sticky. Oh, you might also check the plastic air tube that goes across the top of the radiator...they can crack underneath and cause funny problems.

Now reset your timing to 16*btdc warm at 750rpm. Don't short the connector or anything (this puts it about 6* shorted). When you rev it does retard to TDC...mine always has anyway.

Your signal generator's probably okay, but you can test its resistance (like .2 ohms across it or something) and it's only like $15, but usually if it has problems you won't get any spark at all.

I think the comp will throw a code if the TPS is messed up, and they're a lot of trouble to get right. I wouldn't mess with it.

You could have a vacuum leak...that thing's a hosebeast...but the one that causes big problems is between the intake manifold and head. I think you could check that by spraying ether around it, but this would probably be the last one I check.

The fuel filter's probably never been changed...they can act weird and be difficult to diagnose sometimes. Enjoy changing that...it's under the plenum/intake runners...pull the flap off the inside of the wheelwell for easier access, and be sure to break the banjos free before you unbolt it from the block.

Did you adjust the valves? I think they go .008 and .012 warm.

Lastly, you're not working with a smallblock here...a fresh 22re only puts out like 125lb-ft and 112hp. Dam right it's sluggish :D

[Fredo]

Well, I've checked out the AFM and it looks good, flapper door doesn't stick or anything. Fuel filter got changed last sunday when the new clutch set went in. It's gotta just be a vaccuum leak.

Oh, and I know it's not a smallblock or anything, but I've driven quite a few 22RE's before and this thing is a dog compared to those.

[uglyota]

before you pull the plenum or start replacing gaskets, definitely check that crossover air tube for cracks, and valves are easy enough to adjust and they could be tight enough that they're dogging you. How about the cat? Could it be gummed up?

One of my buddies liked my truck so much that he bought a 94. At 100k miles it never had the power mine had (at 210k)--his with 245s and mine with 33s--and it was a dog right up until the day he traded it in (for a f*rd!).

[uglyota]

pull the efi fuse to erase the memory, then put it back in and see if it feels any different.

[Fredo]

I've already adjusted the valves, and reset the ecm...i guess it's time to start checking vaccuum lines.

[uglyota]

bummer...too bad its not in CS or I'd offer to help.
I love trying to fit my arms where only a skinny asian's were intended to

[Fredo]

****, tell me about it.....that engine bay was not designed for my fat hands.

[uglyota]

maybe--if you're lucky--it'll look like this when you finish:

[fbronco86]

what about idle air control valve or egr. i used to have a s-10 and those would make it run like crap.

[Violentv8toy]

check
EGR - right on the back of the intake (might be it)
vacuum leak - everywhere
adjust the idle screw - (this thing does wonders)
TPS - test it...my money is on this
timing - has to be dead on


These engines kinda suck to work on.
I bet you won't find the problem without taking it to a mechanic. They're a pain to understand. When they run good..they're great...when they run ****tay...they're the worst engine in the world.

nothing is wrong with the pickup signal...nothing is wrong with the AFM.

[Fredo]

Originally posted by Violentv8toy
I bet you won't find the problem without taking it to a mechanic.


This coming from the guy who doesn't know how to tune a smallblock chevy. rolleyes:


You don't know me very well then. Nothing of mine goes to a mechanic. Unless it has a warranty...then I'm still hesitant on trusting somebody else.:

[uglyota]

Good call on the idle screw Mario...that thing can really cause headaches on a 22re.

Never heard of the egr screwing things up, have heard of the PCV valve screwing things up (on top of the valve cover). Just a check valve, easy to test, about $2 to replace.

You're positive it's not throwing codes?

What about the temp. sending unit making it run rich (telling the comp it's cold)?

Any possible way you put the distributor in one tooth off? Kinda hard to get right since it rotates about 1/8 turn as you slide it in. When I did this, mine was gutless until the HG blew:( Could explain why you had to advanced the timing so far for it to run right.

PS :

Originally posted by Fredo
This coming from the guy who doesn't know how to tune a smallblock chevy. rolleyes:Not too cool :rolleyes:

[Violentv8toy]

touche...i know my way around a 22re better than you. Doesn't mean you don't know ****.

I never owned a small block chevy...never had to screw with one until i swapped it in...but i figured it out...and no it wasn't hard.

Point was...good luck finding your problem in that biatch of an engine. I had the same headaches with my 22re...i took it the dealer and they couldn't ever figure out what was wrong.
I know the headaches...its not fun.

Tell us when shes runnin cherry and how you fixed it, master mechanic.:flipoff2:

[Doug Krebs]

Originally posted by Violentv8toy
touche...i know my way around a 22re better than you. Doesn't mean you don't know ****.

I never owned a small block chevy...never had to screw with one until i swapped it in...but i figured it out...and no it wasn't hard.

Point was...good luck finding your problem in that biatch of an engine. I had the same headaches with my 22re...i took it the dealer and they couldn't ever figure out what was wrong.
I know the headaches...its not fun.

Tell us when shes runnin cherry and how you fixed it, master mechanic.:flipoff2:

Do you know freddy?? He'll fix it, and then he'll come and eat you!!!

[jerryg79]

here we go again!

[Violentv8toy]

i don't doubt it...i retract my earlier statement about the taking it to a mechanic....but it won't be a walk in the park...god knows my 22re wasn't.

but nonetheless...let us know when its fixed and what was wrong.

[uglyota]

I felt like a retard when I gave up on mine and took it to a mechanic, who found that the only problem was a bad relay (behind the glove box!).

It's always something simple...just not always so simple to find.

(Like an injector wire that gets corroded or pinched in the factory loom)

Fredo if you end up needing parts let me know...I've got at least 2 of everything.

(ignition control module? They burn up sometimes...still throwing out ideas)

[Fredo]

Originally posted by uglyota
Good call on the idle screw Mario...that thing can really cause headaches on a 22re.

Never heard of the egr screwing things up, have heard of the PCV valve screwing things up (on top of the valve cover). Just a check valve, easy to test, about $2 to replace.

You're positive it's not throwing codes?

What about the temp. sending unit making it run rich (telling the comp it's cold)?

Any possible way you put the distributor in one tooth off? Kinda hard to get right since it rotates about 1/8 turn as you slide it in. When I did this, mine was gutless until the HG blew:( Could explain why you had to advanced the timing so far for it to run right.

PS :
Not too cool :rolleyes:

I've replaced the PCV valve,
temp sending unit checks out,
distributor isn't a tooth off because if it was, you couldn't even get the timing remotely close because of the degrees between the 4 points on the reluctor ring.

[Fredo]

Originally posted by Violentv8toy
i don't doubt it...i retract my earlier statement about the taking it to a mechanic....but it won't be a walk in the park...god knows my 22re wasn't.

but nonetheless...let us know when its fixed and what was wrong.

You think a 22RE is bad....try a 5MGE supra engine....i spent a couple weeks totally rebuilding one and putting it back in my supra.....worked my way through the 6 million vaccuum lines and the electrical connections. It was actually kind of fun. I'll get this 22RE figured out, I just figured it might have been some little notorious quirk that they all did at one time or another or something.

[uglyota]

I forgot you timed it with a light (I "timed" mine by ear when I tried to drive it halfway across the country with the dist 90* off)

Originally posted by Fredo
I just figured it might have been some little notorious quirk that they all did at one time or another or something. It does...lots of them!:D
I would never in a million years have guessed that you had owned a MkIII (II?) supra.
The camaro must feel gutless after having driven one of those babies, eh?
:D

[Violentv8toy]

actually yeah...the 22re has those obnoxious little quirks that you were talking about. one is the idle lope that disappears when in 4wd, which i had....and the other is what you're describing. I just see the 22re as a big clusterfawk of an engine that happens to be pretty sweet if its running properly.

btw...clean the throttle body and the little hoses that go to and from it.

[uglyota]

don't forget the main efi relay that goes out when your windshield starts leaking in the corners and drips water down into the fuse box :)

[Fredo]

Originally posted by uglyota
I forgot you timed it with a light (I "timed" mine by ear when I tried to drive it halfway across the country with the dist 90* off)
It does...lots of them!:D
I would never in a million years have guessed that you had owned a MkIII (II?) supra.
The camaro must feel gutless after having driven one of those babies, eh?
:D

I had two of them....an 83 and an 85. They were fun little cars with the 4.10s, but not near as fun as 4.10s with 348 ftlbs of LT1 torque in front of them. :D

[uglyota]

:drool:

[fbronco86]

i have had problems with the tps and it does not sound like a tps problem. you normally can check the voltage coming from the tps see if its good that way.

[uglyota]

so how'd you fix it?
(I know you did)

[Fredo]

actually, I did yard work and got drunk this weekend instead of working on it. I'll probably work on it tonight and throughout the week. I'll let you know what I find.

[froader03]

that is so amazing, my weekend story exactly. :eek:

[uglyota]

Hey Freddy!
You gonna hurry up and finish that Heep so you can finish working on your Dad's truck?
:D