I want to build a tie rod and drag link

[Moose]

that will bolt to the spindles. do you think i'll have enough clearance. it looks as though the tie rod's hole is right on top of where the stock drag link mounts to the stock tie rod

edit: i mean knuckle

[stx4wheeler]

one that is part of the knuckle and not the spindle, you can build a steering setup like austins, chadnutz, and mud king, with heims, and dom or something that is stronger, and will also give you a much better angle since you flip it on top of the where it is now and that will give you a better steering to.

[Moose]

that's was my original intention was. but my questions are 1) do i have clearance in front of the front shock mount for the drag link with the cycle of the pitman arm, and 2) if so, where the hell do you find this dom tubing. i've tried nearly all the large stock yards and no body has anything i need. i'm looking for 1.5" od, 1/2" id tubing, 1-piece: 55" (tie rod), 1-piece: appr 46" (drag link, but i have to make sure the pitman arm is centered lock to lock first), 4-heims like (http://bulletproofsteering.com/rodendspecs.html) 4130, 28,000psi. and i definitely don't have clearance to mount the tie rod on top of the knuckles.

[eight]

DOM's not needed. Only people on here that will argue it is never wheel. And you're not gonna find 1.5", .5 wall anyway. Just go with some 1 1/4" sch 80 pipe. Use some of the weld in bungs, and get some heims from Jegs, the ones that cost about $30. Or buy those I linked here. (http://tamor.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4557)

[Matt Conlee]

I wheel and I use 1.5 by .5 wall :flipoff2:

[uglyota]

do i have clearance in front of the front shock mount for the drag link with the cycle of the pitman arm
you're asking if your pitman arm will clear the left shock with a heim bolted to it?
A heim isn't much bigger than a TRE. Get on your knees and look at it.

[Moose]

you're asking if your pitman arm will clear the left shock with a heim bolted to it?
A heim isn't much bigger than a TRE. Get on your knees and look at it.

not the heim joints, the drag link. i'm asking, at full lock towards the passenger side knuckle, will that front/lower shock mount interfere with the drag link. because the drag link end of the pitman arm will be inline, if not behind the steering box end of the pitman arm at full lock towards the passenger side knuckle. i've already gotten on my knees, tied a string line, etc. i just need additional visual inspection, hence, the picture.

[stx4wheeler]

i am not sure what you are saying about rubbing i guess it s cause you have dual shocks on both sides, but if it wouldnt rub on the driver side it isnt gonna rub on the passenger side either you shouldnt have any problem with not enough space or anything.

[Moose]

:( i don't know how much more clear i can make it?

[uglyota]

Okay I see...you just want a second opinion. My opinion is no it won't interfere, and if it does, trim that sharp corner off the shock mount, and if it still does, cut the front lower passenger side shock mount off, cut the front upper passenger side shock mount off, go to the other side, cut those front shock mounts off, take the rear shocks off both sides, sell all that mess on ebay and spend some coin on single bilsteins or rancho 9000s. You'll be much happier.
(I hope you know I'm just messin with you bustin your balls, but this is really what you should do :flipoff2: )

[uglyota]

PS i don't think your pitman arm will cycle more than 180* in its normal range (i.e. it will not go "behind the steering box end of the pitman arm at full lock towards the passenger side knuckle")

[Moose]

:eek: halleluea (sp?).

seriously, that's [nearly] exactly what i was thinking. thanks for the input. i've had to run with single shocks in the front with this thing; it's fun! and i think your right about the pitman arm not cycling more than 180. i should have cycled it at home before i asked. but before i spend any money, i was just asking. those long travel shocks will be one of the many projects after i fix the overheating problem, the paint problem, and the driveshaft, axleshaft, gears, and locker problem. i was wondering if i did, i'd put a 14* bend on the bar on the pass side, but i really don't want to do that. thanks again.

[uglyota]

no prob.
you could also adjust out your turning stops so that it doesn't hit until you get a chance to put on single shocks

[Moose]

yea, that too.

[uglyota]

I wouldn't bend that DL in any case, even if you do make it out of .5 :eek: wall DOM (not sure what you'd bend that with anyway)

[Mud King]

i used 1.5" OD with .5 wall for my stuff, and yeah theres no way in hell i could see putting a bend in that, maybe with hydralic bender but i doubt it. M.O.R.E has the tubing in any diameter or what i just went with the biggest they had, so the tie rod wont break itll just rip the box off the frame.

[BigRedFord04]

hey chief, we have the same front axle, and i'm sorry to burst your bubble, but the steering will hit the lower shock mount if you move it up. i dont have the extra shocks in the front, but the bronco i got my radius arms off of did, thus i had the extra shock mount on the front of the C-cup (boobs). when we made my steering we had to torch front of the cups a couple inches back, i'm not sure that the shock would clear.

mine's made of 1.5" x .25" wall DOM, i've wheeled it, and smashed it on stuff w/o problem, but i hear scott has bent that size tubing. if you're going to be beating the hell out of it i'd recommend sleeving it. i run 3/4" x 3/4" QA1 chromoly heims i got thru jegs for $30/ea. i'll go snap some pics in a min and show you what it looks like lock to lock and how much i had to trim. remember, i have chevy knuckles, but all it did was move the steering higher, not farther in or out....and when we built the steering i still had the same Ford knuckles you have.

look at this 'til i get more:
http://www.texasoffroad.net/albums/lonestar/album84/finished.sized.jpg

[BigRedFord04]

here's a pic of how close it is now. remember your link from the pitman arm down will be different, but to keep stuff from binding up, get it as parallel to the track bar as possible. you can see how we mademine parallel by building the little box on top of the center link, but most people just put the links in double sheer on top of the knuckle w/ a longer bolt and dont worry so much about them being parallel.

http://www.texasoffroad.net/albums/lonestar/album84/DSC01701.sized.jpg

more pics here:
http://www.texasoffroad.net/galleries/lonestar/album84

[Moose]

i'm not that sure. if i mounted the tie rod over knuckle, i'd definitely have a problem.

* my pitman arm extends further away from the axle/knuckle. picture this.
in your head, fix the knuckle's side to side movement. rotate the pitman
arm toward the pass side. the further towards the pass side the pitman
arm moves the drag link, the further forward (towards the front) the drag
link moves. now if we let the kuckle move again, and make the same
cycle, the clearance between a point on the drag link directly in front of
the shock mount and the shock mount pretty much stays the same, maybe
a 1/4".

* i'll be mounting my tie rod under the knuckle

i checked it out last night. i turned it full lock towards the passenger knuckle and if i shave that corner off of the front shock mount, i'll have 1/4" clearance even during full stuff/drop. i appreciate your input and i'll definitely double check it out.

[uglyota]

get your tie rod up away from the rocks (on top of the knuckle)
and you might be able to get rid of the dropped pitman with the new steering...didn't someone here want one recently? (savvyaggie?)

[uglyota]

:eek:

[Moose]

:eek:

***. it's coil spring therapy. with all the time and effort i put into keeping the coils from bowing, i've only fixed the forward bow (hence the yellow coil shims under the coil cups). i can't figure how to keep the coils from bowing out towards the fenders. so, when i park it, i attached this turnbuckle to pull the coils in until they take shape... hopefully. if that doesn't work, then i'll just run it, but it sags like 1/2".

[Moose]

get your tie rod up away from the rocks (on top of the knuckle)
and you might be able to get rid of the dropped pitman with the new steering...didn't someone here want one recently? (savvyaggie?)

what new steering? hydraulic steering? out of my league.

[bburris]

It's keeping his coils from bowing out. I think that was discussed in great detail a few weeks ago.

[uglyota]

what new steering? hydraulic steering? out of my league.
the new steering consisting of a new tie rod and drag link ;)

I must have quit following that thread before he decided to tie his coil springs together :laughing:

[Moose]

I wanted to use my existing thread for three reasons:

1) to continue the thread in the proper location instead of beginning a new (woops). http://tamor.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4892

2) update progress on the install. Got home last night with all the rain, but was tired of waiting. It sure is a b!tch to take off 38's with just two 2-ton jacks (And that's gonna be part three). Pulled the old steering off. Cotter pins were probably the most pain (rusted). A 4lb sledge works wonders. Decided to drill the pitman arm from underneath (huge mistake). But at least I didn't have to take it off. I got it done. But by this time, I had oily metal chips all over me and my drill. And it was kind of a pain, cause I had to keep tightening the chuck everytime the lubricating oil let the bit get loose inside the 1/2" shank. Progress was miserably slow because of the drizzle and I couldn't tell the difference between hot flakes of steel or a$$hole mesquitos. The knuckles shouldn't take more than a few minutes. Then put everything together. Will have pictures by the weekend.

3) Obviously, I'm a novice at everything on this heap. I'm beginning to find out that it's a lot less stressful with the right equipment. I've got all the basic hand tools. What information I need are the basic stuff to work on the frame, steering, drivetrain, body (I've managed to figure out most of my suspension). Including cutting, grinding, cleaning, welding (I don't know how to weld YET), drilling, etc. And what brand names have better reputations. I've already done a search here for "common tools," "common equipment," "popular tools", "popular equipment," etc. Nothing. As soon as I can stabilize my house notes, I'll be investing in a quality drivetrain all the way from the front outer axleshaft (if not a front D60) (I already have Warm Premium Hubs), front locker and gears, 1350 or 1410 axle yokes and driveshafts front and rear, rear full spool and gears, to 35/40 spline axleshafts (if not a D70 or 14bolt). Now, if I would have just asked you a more generic question (like, "what's the best tools out there to work on my truck?") would I have gotten the same responses? Most important, which eqpt are better to spend more money on than others? Which will I have forever, and which will I only use once? I would like to use this as a reference for myself or anyone else since I couldn't find a post on this.

[BigRedFord04]

i drilled my pitman arm from underneath also b.c. the 1st time i tried to take it off i broke 3 pitman arm pullers. broke a 3/4" drill bit (using a hand drill), and almost broke my wrist. huge PITA.

as for tools, i try to buy anything Craftsman. lifetime warranty and no hassles when replacing them. i dont think there are any nuts or bolts on my truck bigger than 1 1/8", but its good to have everything (wrenches and sockets) in 1/16" increments all the way up to 1 1/4". ratcheting wrenches are the shiznit!! definately ask for some for xmas if you dont already have some. Gear Wrench brand is cheaper b.c. they're flat. Craftsman gear wrenches have an angled box end and are reversible...which along w/ the name brand makes them more expensive. A bunch of random screwdrivers is nice to have, even if theres more than one of some of 'em, thats less time you spend looking for the right tool. Some will tell you a good torque wrench is overrated, but i like to try and go by specs anytime they're readily available. When you get into disassembling the front axle, you'll need a spindle nut socket, and a couple of little picks (a captain hook lookin' one works good for pulling the outer snap ring). Tate figured out that snap ring pliers are also handy for pulling the lock washer thats between the two spindle nuts. lots and lots of blue towels is nice. you can buy like 24 rolls at a time at Costco or Sams. good "shop tools" to have are a torch and a mig welder. arc welding is a PITA and plasma cutters are expensive. bench grinder and a couple angle grinders. Sawzall, maybe. when i build a shop, i wanna have a mill and lathe....so much cool **** you can do w/ that combination. that should get you started.

as for parts...chromo shafts all the way around with CTM u-joints in front should hold up fairly well to 38"s. Gears: Genuine Gear from 4WPW offers an unlimited lifetime guarantee, even if you fcuk `em up installing `em, they'll warranty for free. I've used Randy's (Yukon) and Precision. Randys was good about warrantying my 8.8 gears when they broke before the warranty was up, but i didnt call them until after. any particular reason you'll be using a spool instead of a Detroit except maybe price? disc brakes for the 9" are also a good idea. big u-joints are nice, but remember to leave a weak link in your drivetrain somewhere thats easy to fix (usually u-joints). Cuz its easy to hammer in a new u-joint on the trail, but not so easy to replace a stripped R&P. i wouldnt bother with buying entire new driveshafts until the factory ones start causing problems. have the yokes upgraded and run it.

i'm tired of typing. buy all that and check back w/ me.

[uglyota]

big u-joints are nice, but remember to leave a weak link in your drivetrain somewhere thats easy to fix (usually u-joints). Cuz its easy to hammer in a new u-joint on the trail, but not so easy to replace a stripped R&P.
so THAT's your strategy!
:laughing:
:flipoff2:

[bburris]

Are you looking for tool suggestions, or power tool suggestions?

As far as power tools, you really just have to do some research at various places like Lowe's, Home Depot and Sear's. It seems some brands are much better than others.

A good drill press is a great thing to have in any garage. It prevents you from having to drill things like knuckles and pitman arms in odd positions under your vehicle in the rain. :D

An angle grinder and sawzall are good to have because they're all around useful things and can be used for a lot of various tasks. I use my angle grinders a lot for random things that I would use a bench grinder for if I had easy access to one. My sawzall has been very handy, but that's mostly because I've participated in the disposal of a few vehicles since I moved down here. (All completely legal, of course. :D )

Something that I never used until we started my suspension was a Port-A-Band. I think Milwaukee is the only company that makes one of these, and they're pretty pricey. Paul has a pretty old hand-me-down one that has made life a whole lot easier when cutting tubing and brackets out.

Oh, and you might want to invest in a good, heavy duty floor jack and some big azz jack stands because I know that beast must weigh a sh!t-ton.

[BigRedFord04]

Foley has a porta-band that he uses for everything. definately good recommendation. i know we used it more than once in my SAS. drill press is also nice...but my future mill will be able to do that :D.

cinder blocks are always handy for sitting, or holding up a vehicle. :flipoff2:

http://www.texasoffroad.net/albums/lonestar/album83/sas11.sized.jpg

http://www.texasoffroad.net/albums/lonestar/album182/DSC00777.sized.jpg

http://www.texasoffroad.net/albums/lonestar/album182/DSC00815.sized.jpg

:flipoff2:

[uglyota]

http://www.tamor.org/members-rigs/albums/album05/eric_notires.jpg

[Moose]

got her done, except the minor important details: adjusting toe, drilling holes for cotter pins in castle nuts, torquing everything down to 110 ft-lbs. suggestion: don't buy the lubricating oil in aerosol spray cans. the pressure was almost down to zero, so, i had to tilt the can over the drill to let the oil drip in the hole. PITA.

i ground down the front shock mount as much as possible w/out losing the integrity of the mount, but i didn't even need to do that. this drag link hits the shock up higher where i thought it WAS going to hit the shock mount. so, i'll just have a huge dent in the shock sooner or later. i've got almost 95% full lock anyway, what's another 5% turning radius?

yes, power tools. i have 99% of small tools including 1/2" drive/impact deep sockets. a bench grinder is permanant mount? a angle grinder is a corded 4" disk grinder? what's a mill? what's a lath? how much is a good drill press? what's a port-o-band? portable band saw? isn't that a jig saw? how do i get a set of tall jackstands? mine are stout (6 ton ac delco's), but they're short. who sells the better mig welders? how much?

yes, she's a heavy sonb!tch. i dropped the rear end once trying to put the 38's back on. good thing i'm already going to rear disc brakes. took a chunk out of the drums... maybe thats why my rear seals are leaking? ya think.

[uglyota]

...a bench grinder is permanant mount? a angle grinder is a corded 4" disk grinder? what's a mill? what's a lath? how much is a good drill press? what's a port-o-band? portable band saw? isn't that a jig saw? how do i get a set of tall jackstands? mine are stout (6 ton ac delco's), but they're short. who sells the better mig welders? how much?
why's the sky blue?
how's the positraction on a plymouth work
google can answer these questions, and more!
but here's a portaband...not a jig saw...jigsaws suck
http://woodworker.com/images/ss/888-850.jpg

[Moose]

i wouldnt bother with buying entire new driveshafts until the factory ones start causing problems. have the yokes upgraded and run it.


wouldn't i have to have new driveshafts if i upgrade the yokes? or can you beef up the yokes w/out increasing size? who makes aftermarket 1310 yokes?

[Moose]

why's the sky blue?
how's the positraction on a plymouth work
google can answer these questions, and more!
but here's a portaband...not a jig saw...jigsaws suck
http://woodworker.com/images/ss/888-850.jpg

funky

oh. and here's the link to the rest of the install. http://www.tamor.org/members-rigs/album92

[BigRedFord04]

why's the sky blue?
how's the positraction on a plymouth work
google can answer these questions, and more!
but here's a portaband...not a jig saw...jigsaws suck
air tools! cant believe i forgot those. i've never used 'em that much b.c. i dont own any....but Foley does :gigem:. i dont think my lug nuts will even come off w/o an impact anymore. air ratchets are slower`n molasses, but nice every now and then. cutoff wheels, mini angle sanders, die grinders....all handy. mill and lathe are machine shop equipment, pretty expensive and not usually found in anyone's personal garage arsenal. a mill is basically a big drill press w/ a table that moves on 3 axis, X (left and right), Y (forward and backwards), and Z (up and down). a lathe spins things, machines on a circular axis. how do you get a set of tall jackstands? go to the tall jackstand store and buy 'em! Botco sells Miller Migs. check around on prices, you might be able to find one used. Foley likes to play vulture to poor off-road folk who cant afford their hobby anymore and have to sell all their stuff. personally, i dont like to weld with even a 175, 225 is the way to go :D. you can get a mini 9" drill press @ sears for $100. i think they're on sale right now. you've just gotta check the specs, and expect to drill up to at least 3/4" holes so dont get one thats underpowered for the task.

Mill
http://www.soleburymountain.com/machining/bridgeport/fullView.jpg

Lathe
http://www.sungroper.asn.au/gallery/photos/2000-11-30-Lathe~01-Lathe.jpg

:flipoff2:

[Moose]

dammit! i design highways for 18 wheelers. and now i design posts around asking "the right" questions. :flipoff2: