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View Full Version : DOM vs. HREW



davido
09-24-2002, 12:13 AM
Scott's done a lot of reading. I'm interested in discusion between well read/educated people....

What say you Scott, Andy, Doug, Grayson, or anyone else who knows.

~dso

Doug Krebs
09-24-2002, 12:28 AM
I'm going to try to find the thread that came up on this on CK5.

Here is some crap i found:

ERW is a 1010 steel, DOM is 1020. The 10 and 20 represent the amount of Carbon in the steel. The higher carbon
content make the steel much stronger. Yield strength on 1010 is around 45,000 psi and DOM is around 70,000 and 4130 is around 90,000. So you can see the strength difference. Also, DOM is "work-hardened" or forged if you will. The Steel itself becomes denser and the surface tougher.


DOM is a process and means "drawn over mandrel". Typically you use DOM when you require precise thicknesses in the ID, OD or wall thickness of a tube. Hydraulic applications come to mind. It is not seamless but is made from sheet steel, rolled and electric resistance welded and finally, DOM'ed. DOM is a cold process. Most typically it is made from low to medium carbon steel. Often a low carbon steel application is preferred because of it's ability to be formed easily. The higher the carbon content, the harder it
becomes to bend. Typical tensile strength of DOM tubing is in the 60-75000 range although some increase can be gained with a 1040 steel base rather than the more common 1020. 4130 Tubing is often referred to as "Chrome Moly" tubing. This jargon term is derived from the chromium and molybdenum concentrations present in the metal itself, which run in the area of .80-1.10 for Chromium and .15-.25 for Molybdenum. typical tensile strength for this material is 95000 - 110000 PSI however it can range as high as 225000 by heat treatment. It is good to
remember that the higher the tensile strength, the more brittle a metal becomes so you need to find a balance. A good balance for 4130 would be somewhere in the 145000-15000 PSI range.

Just stuff i found real quick, some where there was a huge discussion about this. I'll try tommorow

Fredo
09-24-2002, 12:49 AM
Well, as far as I know, HREW is cheaper than DOM, but isn't as nice as DOM. HREW has a seam weld, as does DOM, but DOM is taken a few steps further and as far as I can tell, it's basically like a heat treating and then it's rolled over a die to counteract the welding and cold working abnormalities for a straighter stronger piece of tubing. But as far as strength goes in cages and other automotive applications, HREW will sufficiently do the job except for like steering columns (saftey sake) and driveshaft tubes. I know some organizations such as NHRA require DOM to be used in many classes simply because those cars could hit a wall at 250+mph, but in the case of many SCCA classes, they don't require a cage to be built of DOM. Now if I was building a purely competition rock buggy were I would be getting into areas with large drop-offs, I would probably use DOM, but for the kind of stuff we all do and even for the occasional rock competition, I would probably go with the HREW.

I guess if by this post you're asking which one is better, definitely the DOM, but it just depends on the application. I plan on putting a cage in my camaro and perhaps even in a scout, but I haven't decided if I'm going to fork over the extra cash for DOM....so I guess to me, it's a matter of how serious you are going to be depending on that piece of tubing to do what you are asking of it.

Cajun
09-24-2002, 04:16 AM
I'm on my way out the door to go hunting, so I'll post more info. later.

However, for the life of me, I can't figure out why people try to skimp on cage building. You're designing and building something that has 1 purpose...TO SAVE YOUR LIFE and the lives of your passengers. This seems easy to me, DOM is stronger than HREW, so use it.

While super cool, (and light) I believe that "chro-mo" is overkill for just about everything but a pure competition vehicle.

For the record, the cages on the vehicles that roll out of my shop will use exclusively DOM on the support bars.

Like I said, I'll post more later, this has been discussed ad nauseum on the PBB.

Krawler68
09-24-2002, 07:59 AM
THree cages and the only one i ever felt SAFE in was my DOM one...

redcagepatrol
09-24-2002, 08:24 AM
do a search on POR, the last time I read about it, (before I bought the HREW) I read everything above except about the different types of steel used.

From my understanding, there is a MINIMAL strenth difference between DOM and HREW and that the difference is mostly with the tolerances (that don't matter in cage building). The cage strength will come down to the CAGE DESIGN and the WELDING, not the type of tubing used. The minimal difference in strengeth will not matter if you build the cage correctly and weld it without defects (or large gaps Doug).

In conclusion, there is NO reason to get DOM unless you like a smooth ID and have extra money to spend. the strength difference does not matter, only the cage design and welding techniques.

Krawler68
09-24-2002, 08:54 AM
kinda like glad lok... let's roll my **** down a hill and then your ****... whose rig would you feel more comfortable inside? I for one would NOT want to take a tumble in an HREW cage if I could help it... not to say it won't work...but why buy a Forkin' Klune V and then be cheap on a cage?

redcagepatrol
09-24-2002, 09:00 AM
it's NOT being cheap, it't having a brain and being smart about it. The way you are talking, you would be stupid for using DOM and not true tig welded chrome-moly tubing.

You don't have to have 40 spline axleshafts on a 2000lb rig. There is a reason God made brains. Overkill is not the answer.

Krawler68
09-24-2002, 09:16 AM
gun drilled 40 spline axles on a 2000 lb. rig WOULD be my first choice, kick ass bullet proof design, low weight...and YES I think a tig welded Chro-Moly cage would be a good choice... however I DO belive that might be overkill.

My point is if you want a strong cage that will hold up to a massivew thrash endo roll, I'd rather KNOW I have the best I can afford rather than being a cheap biatch and saying HREW is good nuff'.


I remember you used to justify pipe as a cage material... boy were those the days :Flipoff2:

Cajun
09-24-2002, 09:48 AM
.120 HREW,1 roll, backwards onto roof:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=509458

I'm certain additional bracing would've helped, but some of that stuff flattened, not so cool. I don't know if DOM would've held up any better in the same situation, but it's food for thought.

I'm looking for pics of DOM failure, but I haven't found any.

Cajun
09-24-2002, 09:49 AM
Another pic
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=509456

Here's the link if those don't show up:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=49897&highlight=DOM

Cajun
09-24-2002, 09:51 AM
This would be the ad nauseum that I mentioned earlier...

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=47055&highlight=DOM

redcagepatrol
09-24-2002, 10:07 AM
I have read the thread on the POR, overall they agree with me. The bent cage is due to a TERRIBLE design. A horizantal bar supported by another horizantal bar??? No upward bars on the outside? What would you expect , gaurentee DOM would have done the same but alot more money would have been wasted.

froader03
09-24-2002, 10:33 AM
now hold on a minute there, cowboy... DOM is unarguably superior in composition (read: stronger). let's say you build identical cages out of each. rocks will much sooner take a toll on HREW leading to more little nicks and dents. don't stop me if ya think I'm wrong here... hell, I'm not even gonna go any further... I agree with andy and doug. the value of a cage can never be more than the people it protects. I agree that proper construction is essential in any case, but you can't honestly say that saving money (even if more than a little) is the SMART way to go. DOM is more durable and safer, especially in the long run when your cage has taken some hits, rollover or not.

you get what you pay for and if you don't pay for it now you'll pay for it later my friend...

Krawler68
09-24-2002, 11:32 AM
Forget what I said earlier...upon conferencing with Scott I think that it would be best for you to use either old 2 3/8" TK70 drill pipe (because i can get it for you for free)... or a Bunch of mitre cut square tubing (.095 wall cause Square tubing is SOOOOOOO much stronger).

:flipoff2:

DOM sucks because it's about 1.50x more expensive and is hard to purchase... I would never use this inferior part on anything I built...not when cheaper things are SO much superior...

Get the point?

Cajun
09-24-2002, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by redcagepatrol
...The bent cage is due to a TERRIBLE design. A horizantal bar supported by another horizantal bar??? No upward bars on the outside? What would you expect...

I believe my exact words were "I'm certain additional bracing would've helped, but some of that stuff flattened, not so cool. I don't know if DOM would've held up any better in the same situation, but it's food for thought."

Again, I agree that the design sucks. I still haven't been able to find any pics of a DOM cage failing...Anyone?

As for $$$, what have you guys found locally for prices? I'm still investigating around here. The local steel supplier had NO IDEA what I was talking about when I said "DOM" or "HREW". He asked if I wanted square tubing 3 different times...:rolleyes:

I mentioned to David that I would like to go in with whoever and get a gang of 1.75" and 2" tube, both DOM and HREW, to get the per-foot price down. I won't be needing it for a while, but it's not going to spoil in my shop.

Krawler68
09-24-2002, 12:11 PM
I think you should call Matt Hodges at West Texas Offroad... 915-651-5010... he knows all about it and has a VERY cheap outlet for it.

Doug Krebs
09-24-2002, 12:51 PM
I would be intrested in a group buy

redcagepatrol
09-24-2002, 12:55 PM
1.5" .12 wall HREW is about $.87 in Houston while DOM is over $6.00 a foot.

yes DOM is stronger, and yes life is important, but where EITHER of these cages fail (assuming proper construction) will be in an EXTREME rollover worse than the one I watched of Greg's. His cage was ruined but did it's job. I do not ever seeing me being in a situation where I would take a tumble as bad as he did (end over twice and 4 side rolls).

I have seen well over 10 rollovers in my life, Greg's being the worst. I watched 5 in a row at Disney on the same obstacle. Greg's cage was VERY simple - even bolted to the body and it held up. Mine will be much more complex than his and should easily take two end over rolls and 4 sideways rolls with little deformation if any.

Once again - there is no need for OVERKILL. You could make one like the top fuel dragsters have (completley surrounded in tube) but it is NOT NEEDED.

Rex
09-24-2002, 01:08 PM
Here's another discussion on POR:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67701&perpage=25&pagenumber=2

Basically what the person was asking was if he should use schedule 80 or DOM on an exo because he has had problems with the DOM bending. The discussion basically said that for hitting rocks and the such that DOM will dent easier. Now think about this: you can stand on a coke can if there are no dents in it, but if you put a small dent on it, the can crushes. I'm sure the same is true for DOM. I'm not saying that I would use pipe for a cage, because it doesn't absorb blows as well as DOM, but if you just use DOM for a cage and want it to be structurally sound then you better be prepared to replace tubes when they dent. Oh yeah, and there are some pics of bent DOM there.

P.S. Jason Larman had a completely HREW cage on his yellow CJ and tipped over once and didn't hurt it at all.

Krawler68
09-24-2002, 04:36 PM
Go ahead boys, do as you like... 6.00 a foot is butt sex... it's MUCH cheaper from other places... at least I've seen quotes for MUCH lower... as low as 1.80/ foot.

I'll be happy in my DOM cage...

BMFScout
09-24-2002, 05:43 PM
Originally posted by Krawler68
6.00 a foot is butt sex...



Is that a west Texas thing? butt sex? you ARE gay...

mark
09-25-2002, 09:33 AM
Originally posted by Krawler68
THree cages and the only one i ever felt SAFE in was my DOM one...

I sood next to your first one and didn't feel safe.:D

-Mark

Krawler68
09-25-2002, 12:00 PM
You of course mean kevin's current cage... :D He thinks it'll be fine...talk about deluded...

Cajun
09-27-2002, 12:02 PM
Something that I forgot to mention is multiple-plane bends. My understanding is that for HREW to function properly, the seam must be on the inside of the bend. This is impossible with the aforementioned bends.

Krawler68
09-27-2002, 12:22 PM
http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=8187&step=4&showunits=inches

Not a bad price on DOM...but I've seen better... these guys specialize in all sorts of custom bar stock and tubing in small sizes... so I'm sure their prices aren't exactly the best... if you want better prices I would suggest calling different places and pricing them against each other...

$4.38/foot for 2" .120 wall DOM type 5 tubing

http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=7343&step=4&showunits=inches

Not bad for Chro-mo really... seen lower, but not dramatically... $6.98/ foot.

davido
09-27-2002, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by Cajun
I'm on my way out the door to go hunting, so I'll post more info. later.


Just had to get that in, huh fag. Well so am I, see ya!

~dso

davido
09-27-2002, 01:41 PM
Originally posted by Krawler68
kinda like glad lok... let's roll my **** down a hill and then your ****... whose rig would you feel more comfortable inside? I for one would NOT want to take a tumble in an HREW cage if I could help it... not to say it won't work...but why buy a Forkin' Klune V and then be cheap on a cage?



But with that thinking, why not go Cro Moly. It's the best. It's your LIFE. Right?

davido
09-27-2002, 02:09 PM
Well, there's no DOM to be had here in town. Looks like Htown will be the best place to get it.

Andy, between hunting trip, why don't you pick up a Htown Yellow Book and make yourself useful.:eek:

Alright, I really am outta here now. Have a good weekend all. See ya next week.

~dso

Doug Krebs
09-27-2002, 02:21 PM
Triple S steel in houston is normally the cheapest, they have a surplus yard too and there is really good stuff in there. If any part of the shipment was damaged all of it goes to the surplus yard. So sometimes there is brand new, perfectly good steal that is really cheap!! They have 2 locations

Cajun
09-27-2002, 07:51 PM
I jacked this from the pirate4x4 BBS, according to those folk, they're the cheapest hands down. I'll try to give 'em a shout tomorrow and see what all the fuss is about. If they're not open, I'll call Monday.

EMJ
HOUSTON
5311 Clinton Drive
P.O. Box 1421 Zip 77251
Houston, TX 77020
Phone: (713) 672-1621
Fax: (713) 672-0528

Cajun
10-09-2002, 02:29 PM
I finally got around to calling EMJ, here's the scoop:

orders >500'

2" x .120 DOM = $2.25
2" x .120 HREW= $1.08

1.75" x .120 DOM = $1.59
1.75" x .120 HREW = $1.19

All prices are /foot. Price breaks are at >100', >300', and >500'. If anyone can produce a cheaper supplier where shipping won't kill the deal, it's time to post up. Doug? Scott?

I still need to talk to David at the powdercoating place in Navasota. He's got a hookup somewhere, said he'd pass it along.

I'll keep you guys posted.

redcagepatrol
10-22-2002, 08:15 AM
just called EMJ because my 10' pieces are not long enough for the hoops - need more tubing.

For <500', I just need two sticks...

1.5" .12 wall DOM is $4.08 a foot, they don't carry HREW

SSS steel for HREW - where I bought all mine earlier,

1.5" .12 wall HREW is $1.03.

Doug Krebs
10-22-2002, 09:47 AM
Isn't triple S great??? All the steel on my truck came out of their scrap yard. Hell i paid $15 for 4x8 piece of diamond plate

redcagepatrol
10-22-2002, 09:54 AM
it is, I have dropped a few hundred there already on all kinds of steel, will spend $200 more today probably.

BMFScout
10-23-2002, 01:22 PM
This is what I found out from Metal Supermarkets in Dallas.

DOM 2.0 X .125 ---4.25 PER FOOT FOR 20FT STICK
HTR 2.0 X .120---3.38 PER FOOT "
DOM 1.75 X .120----4.00 PER FOOT "
HTR 1.75 X .120---3.80 PER FOOT "

IT WILL BE ABOUT 20% MORE PER FOOT FOR PIECES LESS THAN 20 FOOT

WE CAN TAKE YOUR ORDER BY VISA/MC AND PROVIDE CUT TO LENGTH
THANKS, JEFF. CINDY

I guess that is more than the place in Houston...

redcagepatrol
10-23-2002, 01:28 PM
I am guessing that HTR is the same as HREW? If so, they are screwing ya'll for it, I bought the two extra-long sticks I needed yesterday at a cool $1.03 a foot.

BMFScout
10-23-2002, 04:24 PM
Originally posted by redcagepatrol
I am guessing that HTR is the same as HREW? If so, they are screwing ya'll for it, I bought the two extra-long sticks I needed yesterday at a cool $1.03 a foot.
not real sure what htr is and if it is the same hrew, I sent them what Andy had posted for prices to see what the charged, just thought you guys might like to know for reference what they got.

Cajun
12-12-2002, 09:25 AM
The new best price is $2.20 per foot for 2"x.120" DOM, in Houston.

I'll be getting info. on minimum orders at this price and lead time, so stay tuned.

Jackasic
12-12-2002, 11:41 AM
sounding good. So how much does it take to build a cages from scratch any way? Any one have any good cage ideas?

Cajun
12-12-2002, 12:33 PM
Here's one...http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=63437&highlight=fatkid

The above one has a nice overall look, but I prefer the asthetics of the "halo" front, like this...http://thisdysfunctional.org/kids/album26/DSC00142.jpg

KrazyKarl02
02-10-2009, 12:33 PM
it's NOT being cheap, it't having a brain and being smart about it. The way you are talking, you would be stupid for using DOM and not true tig welded chrome-moly tubing.

You don't have to have 40 spline axleshafts on a 2000lb rig. There is a reason God made brains. Overkill is not the answer.

Not to be singleing Scott out, but I noticed in the recent tube buy thread that Scott requested DOM.

Scott have you changed your position on the strength of HREW? Why the switch to DOM?

BMFScout
02-10-2009, 03:09 PM
Not to be singleing Scott out, but I noticed in the recent tube buy thread that Scott requested DOM.

Scott have you changed your position on the strength of HREW? Why the switch to DOM?

Scott has money now! :)

Lynda
02-10-2009, 03:38 PM
Not to be singleing Scott out, but I noticed in the recent tube buy thread that Scott requested DOM.

Scott have you changed your position on the strength of HREW? Why the switch to DOM?

Because he loves me and his son and wants us to be safer than safe :)

davido
02-10-2009, 03:46 PM
....so is that to say that HREW is unsafe?

redcagepatrol
02-10-2009, 03:48 PM
Not to be singleing Scott out, but I noticed in the recent tube buy thread that Scott requested DOM.

Scott have you changed your position on the strength of HREW? Why the switch to DOM?

I have not changed my position. I built Lynda's cage with DOM and learned the HUGE differnce between the two while pulling the handle on the bender... Her rig is heavy, mine is light.

I roller her rig HARD with ZERO distortion in the cage - that stuff isn't even thinking about bending unless going at high speeds (which we don't do)

I've bent (from rocks, rolling, or a crane...) several pieces of tube on the Patrol but long story short - it is adaquate to protect you in a roll - even in a significant roll. It might distort and require a new cage, BUT - it will protect you.

While offroading - I purposfully stay away from situations that could result in "significant" roll down a hill - I just pull the winch. It's just not worth the risk. I have no problems with laying the rig on it's side or even a slow roll on the lid - not a big deal.

Three reasons the "new" tube on the Patrol will be DOM
1) I have more money
2) I'm using it for the frame
3) I might make new sliders (mine are bent) and the DOM holds up better to the beating on the rocks.

SO - HREW is fine as long as the cage design, welds, and tube fits are done properly. DOM is better but not needed in most applications (low speed)

uglyota
02-10-2009, 03:56 PM
does .120 wall HREW actually measure .120? .120 DOM definitely looks thicker than .120 HREW, and pulling the handle on the bender is waaaaay harder. Maybe it has something to do with the ratings...like DOM is at least .120 and HREW is closer to actually .120?

robertf03
02-10-2009, 03:58 PM
what?

uglyota
02-10-2009, 04:29 PM
Disregarding that they are both called .120 wall, is .120 wall DOM is thicker than .120 wall HREW?

robertf03
02-10-2009, 04:44 PM
no, they are both .120

keep in mind tubing is used for more than just cages and indexed off the ID or OD so if its not consistant with the size its junk

uglyota
02-10-2009, 05:11 PM
so two pieces of tubing, both 1.75" OD, both .120" wall, both mild steel, one HREW and one DOM and somehow the DOM is thicker and heavier. Guess the welded seam saves weight? :)

Lynda
02-11-2009, 08:44 AM
....so is that to say that HREW is unsafe?

No, HREW is safe...but DOM is safer :D

KrazyKarl02
02-11-2009, 10:30 AM
so two pieces of tubing, both 1.75" OD, both .120" wall, both mild steel, one HREW and one DOM and somehow the DOM is thicker and heavier. Guess the welded seam saves weight? :)

In my opinion, Everyone thinks the seemless or DOM process has better wall control, it doesn't. DOM, Drawn over mandrel is made by extruding a billet of steel over a piercing point. It is very hard to maintain a constant wall thickness via this method. On the other hand HREW is made by rolling a strip of metal into a tube.

With HREW you can start off with 0.120 thick plate and roll it and have very consistent wall. With DOM a manufacturer will intentionally "roll heavy" or have a thicker wall to insure that it is atleast .120 all around, so one side might be .130 while the other is .120 I think that is why DOM is heavier.

The other difference is how much you trust the weld process that links the HREW together. I could see where that might have some internal stress built into it.

Just my 2 cents.

jerryg79
02-11-2009, 10:41 AM
jones is that you?

KrazyKarl02
02-11-2009, 10:55 AM
jones is that you?

No it was authentic Karl sharing his pipe knowledge with the the world. I like to try to contribute some technical related comments to this board every now and again. You might try it sometime..... :flipoff2:

jerryg79
02-11-2009, 10:59 AM
ok but let me send you an email making fun of jones for stating the same thing first:flipoff2:

FJAggie07
02-11-2009, 11:02 AM
No it was authentic Karl sharing his pipe knowledge with the the world...

I got that far and didn't want to read the rest. :rainbow: :flipoff2:

uglyota
02-11-2009, 11:09 AM
Holey fawkiin shiat! Real tech! Thanks!

Doug Krebs
02-11-2009, 11:23 AM
I've always have read on the internet, that DOM starts life off as HREW and then has the drawn over mandrel pipe.

Karl however works in this industry and knows how to lay pipe!

robertf03
02-11-2009, 11:42 AM
karl are you confusing seamless and DOM? I've ordered both dom and seamless pipe and there were big price differences, but that was stainless and a long time ago. It was some indian mfg if you want to check the pipe network

uglyota
02-11-2009, 12:11 PM
Don't they sometimes call DOM "seamless"? Though it seems like I have heard of both DOM seamless and extruded seamless

73bronco
02-11-2009, 01:02 PM
I'm pretty sure DOM is just HREW thats went through a mandrel afterwards which cold rolls it making it stronger

eight
02-11-2009, 02:10 PM
I believe DOM is welded tube that has had a mandrel pulled though it. Karl is referring to seamless tube. There is an argument in the tube industry over which is stronger. It is generally accepted that seamless is stronger but but can be argued the other way. The seamless people say the welds on welded tube are a weak point. The welded people say the welded tube is stronger because of more consistent wall thickness as Karl explained above. The good stuff will not show a seam anyway. We keep both in stock at work. I use the welded unless specified otherwise. If either was crap we would have blown it up by now.

KrazyKarl02
02-11-2009, 03:21 PM
I take back my previous statement, DOM is HREW that is drawn through a mandrel. This thereby makes my theory of why DOM would be heavier a flaming pile of ****.....

I see no reason why DOM should weigh more than HREW.

redcagepatrol
02-11-2009, 03:40 PM
DOM should not weigh more, but I promise, it is significantly stronger. A big enough difference that you can tell real quick what you are pulling on in a bender.

J Cooper
02-11-2009, 03:47 PM
why dont we all just use square tube for our cages and frames like the square drive shaft kids?

jerryg79
02-11-2009, 04:12 PM
why dont we all just use square tube for our cages and frames like the square drive shaft kids?

too many right angles messes up the fung shui!

uglyota
02-11-2009, 05:52 PM
You die! You die and go to hell!

CheapJeep
02-11-2009, 06:23 PM
I used both chromoly and dom for my new cage and other tubework. The chromoly is a little stronger and lighter with .095" wall thickness compared to the .120 dom. Regardless they're both strong, the main gain is in weight saving.

redcagepatrol
02-11-2009, 07:56 PM
I used both chromoly and dom for my new cage and other tubework. The chromoly is a little stronger and lighter with .095" wall thickness compared to the .120 dom. Regardless they're both strong, the main gain is in weight saving.

Yeah - you used chromoly DOM and regular DOM... This discussion has never even thought about getting into the chrmo stuff... - that's way up there...:)

Seth
02-11-2009, 08:23 PM
Ed Zachary - Cromo is for long haired pretty boys who....er wait. :flipoff2:

I was thinking about square tube cages the other day when I was looking at all the ROPS's on tractors. Then you could pin it and make it removeable!

Sharpe
02-11-2009, 08:32 PM
No it was authentic Karl sharing his pipe knowledge with the the world. I like to try to contribute some technical related comments to this board every now and again. You might try it sometime..... :flipoff2:

But you do it just infrequently enough that we are genuinely suprised every time :flipoff2:


why dont we all just use square tube for our cages and frames like the square drive shaft kids?

Eat a bowl of dicks.

Graystroke
02-11-2009, 08:49 PM
I'm pretty sure DOM is just HREW thats went through a mandrel afterwards which cold rolls it making it stronger

soungs good and probably makes the seam disapear and fuse it together more.

Graystroke
02-12-2009, 11:03 PM
why dont we all just use square tube for our cages and frames like the square drive shaft kids?

i figured this can go here. is that square tube?
http://www.fourwheeler.com/eventcoverage/129_0904_1964_international_scout_80_ttc_09/photo_01.html