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aggielr
09-27-2002, 02:47 PM
i need some input on this, i have some 3" angle iron, should i just use 1 piece of angle iron and brace it w/some flat bar and weld it to the frame, or use the 1 piece to put the hanger on and turn another piece opposite, like one side against the frame and the other on top of the frame and weld those toegther and brace it? any input?

aggielr
09-27-2002, 02:59 PM
like this

davido
10-07-2002, 01:25 PM
Do you ever actually LOOK for answers before you post?

fag. :D

Here ya go...

http://offroadrepublic.com/fj40/chapter3/frame_frontsprings_frontmount.jpg

http://offroadrepublic.com/fj40/chapter3/frame_frontsprings_rearmount.jpg

aggielr
10-07-2002, 06:21 PM
well fag, after consulting with some engineers, i've decided to use a piece of plate that runs under the frame and then brace the plate to the side of the frame, since most of the pressure on the mount is going to be pushed upward, the plate under the frame gives it something to push against, rather than just relying on welds

robertf03
10-07-2002, 08:07 PM
yup, good idea, especially since you have to put about a 3/16" spacer between the frame and steering box mount since the shackle hanger isn't there anymore. tie it into the design. been considering the same with mine when I finally get around to doing it right.

Cajun
10-07-2002, 08:32 PM
Originally posted by aggielr
...rather than just relying on welds

Especially those welds

:flipoff2:

davido
10-07-2002, 10:02 PM
Ooooo, engineers huh. I'm sure they were automotive ones at that.

You get to that point and then see what you think. Welding to the bottom gives you very little area to weld to, 2" compared to 4". Then you take into consideration the edges that you have to work with. On the sides you have the length of the steel on both top and bottom, if you do it on the bottom, you have only the outside, the inside would have to be butt welded. Plus, it's pulling the non-boxed frame lip down (as the plate pushes up). That leaves you torqing on the weakest edge that you have to work with.

My original plan was to run 3 or 4 bolts throught the frame on each of mine. After welding them up, I didn't think it was necessary. Either way, I don't see how a flat plate across the bottom could match these in strength. There's not enough to weld to IMO.

Like I said, you get to that point and see what you think. Once you see it in the flesh, you might not take the words of POR engineers, or otherwise, as the bible truth. Sometimes even common sense wins out.

~dso


Fawk you andy, that was the first welds I ever did, with gas. Gay.

Cajun
10-07-2002, 10:16 PM
Originally posted by davido

Fawk you andy, that was the first welds I ever did, with gas. Gay.

J/K...As long as they hold, who cares what they look like. Function over form all day long.

At any rate, I'm interpreting his idea as follows in the attachment. The crude MS Paint image is the spring hanger as viewed from the front of the frame. The black rectange is the frame, the red line is the plate he mentioned, and the blue triangle is bracing, like David's. Correct me if I'm misunderstanding, but if this is the case I'd say it would be plenty strong.

davido
10-07-2002, 10:21 PM
Yeah, I understood it. But, all you really have is an 2" on the ends and one length of it. It's not enough welded to the frame for my taste. I'd be worried that over time, the triangles would push into the side of the frame and let the flat bar bend up.

I guess we'll see.

~dso

Cajun
10-07-2002, 10:26 PM
I see what you're saying, but I don't think the flat bar would be any more likely to bend than a piece of angle, given they are the same material and thickness.

But, like you said, I guess we'll see.

Edit: Are you saying that the frame itself would fail, compromising the whole assembly? If so, than I agree that he would be better off with angle like yours.

aggielr
10-07-2002, 10:45 PM
forgot to mention, i'm puttin a piece of 4x4 box tubing inbetween those frame rails, and i'm also goin to have 3 gussets goin to the frame, and it wasn't the por board guys, some of theirs looked worse than my first idea, it was scott, james, ryan and scooter that helped me make my decision, i just don't want all the wieght of the vehicle on 4" of welds, i'd rather have something it can push againts

Seth
10-07-2002, 11:57 PM
just out of curiousity - i have heard its not such a great idea to weld across a frame. any substance to this?

BigRedFord04
10-08-2002, 12:52 AM
i had heard the same but have seen it in many instances, so i just assume its ok now...what do y'all think?

Krawler68
10-08-2002, 08:50 AM
Originally posted by davido
Plus, it's pulling the non-boxed frame lip down (as the plate pushes up). T~dso




There's your main problem...no boxed frame... shoulda bought a bronco...

mark
10-08-2002, 09:01 AM
Applying that much heat to the frame can create a weak spot in the frame, but the gusseting makes up for that. Judging by how much steel you guys add to the frame at the hangers, I would be more concerned about cracking the frame elsewhere.

But if you are concerned about this, welding on the side of the frame is better as the largest compression and tension loads are carried in the top and bottom of the frame section.

The other concern is that outboarding the springs applies an inward twisting force to the frame rails that they were not designed for. Ideally, the outboarded hangers should be connected together using a crossmember so that the torquing component is negated.

BTW, Dave and I just added his steering box mounts to his FJ frame which required serious cutting and welding. Here strength wasn't an issue, rather deformation of the frame from the heat was the concern. So we added temporary bracing to keep things in line.

Mark

davido
10-08-2002, 09:09 AM
Originally posted by Krawler68


There's your main problem...no boxed frame... shoulda bought a bronco...


....or a Cruiser. 90% of mine is boxed, just the very ends aren't. ~dso

Seth
10-08-2002, 11:33 AM
Scouts....another vehicle with a boxed frame.

On another note, I think some frat daddy is driving that yellow one.

And on another note, The reason the whole welding across the frame came up, was when welded some brackets to my frame for my bumper we just put a bead along the top and bottom length wise down the frame. not across the front of the bracket up and down. it has been very strong, with 4 grade 8 bolts, in well fitted holes, and just the 2 welds per side. Granted the guys who did it were VERY good welders. Chain or strap break way before the mounts.

Seth

robertf03
10-08-2002, 12:23 PM
Originally posted by Seth
just out of curiousity - i have heard its not such a great idea to weld across a frame. any substance to this?

mild steel, it won't hurt it. Look at all the body mounts that are welded to it from the factory