Beast from da Middle East

[DRAGOONRANCH]

OK, here we go. I can already feel my wallet aching.

What I got.

'78 or abouts chevy Big-10.
new GM crate 350 w/ 800 cfm 4bbl & alum. hi-rise intake.
SM465 4-spd
unknown transfer case
front 10 bolt (i think)
rear 60 or 14 bolt, not for sure
38 / 12.50 / 16.5 boggers
new 3 core radiator
dual yellow top optimas
2-14" aulillary electric fans
SOA for front axle
6" block lift for the rear

The plan is a true 6" to 12" lift all around (no crappin blocks) with some 44 or 49" bead locked on it. Prolly a leaf spring lift, but may coil over or something. Thats what this thread is for. Post up your thoughts on the matter. Prolly gonna try to start something mid April or so. Gotta recoup my losses from my vacation home. Fully locked, selectable, wheels, tires? Let me know what ya think. :flipoff2:

Before
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f192/DRAGOONRANCH/Chevy/30SEP05046.jpg

After
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f192/DRAGOONRANCH/Chevy/100_2583.jpg

[Sharpe]

Your truck has a NP205 transfer case with the race track bolt face pattern and 10 spline weiner input. Do you know what the axles came out of? My guess is 10 bolt or dana 44 front and 14 bolt FF rear. Your electric fans are auxillary, as in in addition to the stock mechanical one?

The first question if you want ideas on how to build your truck is what do you plan to do with it? I can assume you want to wheel with us and if that is the case a versatile all-around rig should be the goal. This eliminates any lift over 6". I had 9" of total lift on my suburban (6" suspension and 3" body) and it was a little tall for the kind of stuff we do. A 6" lift is acceptable but a 4" would be best. Wanting to run 44's sounds like fun but you have to factor in everything needed to do it. You either will need 8-10" of lift of some serious body modifications to fit them on your truck (not to mention better axles but we'll get to that). It sounds like you have some money to throw at this project but to be honest, you can build a *****in wheelin rig and spend more on tires and wheels than the entire rest of the truck.

Lets go hypothetical situation here. You want 4" of lift and to run 44's. This will take some work but it can be and has been done. For the front, you will deffinately need to hack off most of the outter fenders and lose the inners completely or fabricate some new ones. You will need to move the front axle forward 4-6" to clear the cab of the truck. You may run into steering box tire contact issues but I'm not sure how that would play out after moving the axle forward, the box may end up inside the tire's scrub radius. You may encounter leafspring to tire lug contact issues, in which case you need to either try different backspacing wheels (which may again hit the cab or PS box) or adjust your steering stops so you cant turn as far. You can use normal aftermarket 4" lift springs in the front, or you can do what alot of chevy people have been doing recently and that is taking the factory rear leaf packs (yours should be 52" long) and putting them in the front. This requires some frame mods, and moves your front axle forward 4", and creates about 4" of lift. This is the cheapest and flexiest way to do a front suspension with leaf springs.

For the back, that is easy. Shackle flip. You are again going to have to cut the piss out of your fenders and probably do some wheelwell modifications in order to fit the 44's. I would suggest just ditching the bed completely, it is much easier to see your rear tires and you are much more maneuverable without it. As far as the suspension goes, you can again go cheap and use factory leaf packs. I would recomend getting a set of 56" long rears from a late 80's model truck for the back. You could use 63" long ones from a later model but they require a little more work to install and from what I hear the flex from them is comparable to the 56's. In order to get lift from the rear you do whats called a shackle flip, where you use another set of the front rear spring brackets at the rear of the spring to flip the shackle over. Depending on where you mount the brackets on teh frame, how long your shackle is and what brackets you use, you can get from 0-6" of lift easily.

If you have ay questions, look at my buildup thread titled "Pigpen." Everything I mentioned here I did on my own truck, except for the 44's :( .

[CRaSHnBuRN]

Like robert said, just what do you want to do with this vehicle? Mud, sand, rocks, trail riding, mall crawling, etc. Do you want it to be mildly capable of each terrian, or kick ass in one, and not so good in another? What kind of money, fab skills, tools and shop area do you have to use for this buildup? Remember its real easy to get in over your head real quick, and sometimes things just come up, so plan for it. Finally, are you set on keeping the chevy, and what are your reasons for wanting to go large on tires? I'm not saying you shouldn't, but there are good reasons for it as well as bad ones.

To begin, the biggest thing would be to keep it low. Do not lift it 12 inches. It doesn't need to be that big. If you want to keep the chevy, go to pirate and research "The Beast" from alaska. That guy understands how to build a fullsize. In your case I would look into some rockwells for axles. Move the front axle forward as much as possible (new leaf spring mounts or a linked suspension). This will allow you to keep it lower and keep the tires out of the cab and pinion out of the oil pan. Of course sheetmetal reworking will ensue. Go with full hydro steering as well. Ditch the bed, and build a tube or flatbed. Replace the wimpy tcase, and go with a 203/205 doubler with better spline counts. Put fuel injection or propane on the engine, a heavy duty roll cage that ties everything together, and you should be allright.

Another thought on moving the front axle forward. There was a mud truck featured in some old 4x4 mags where the guy moved the cab and engine back on the frame. This centered the wieght more, kept it low, and let him run huge tires with little lift

[Shaggy]

I say limit your actual lift and trim the body as needed. Trust me a tall rig is not good. Robert has some good ideas in his post. another thing i suggest you do before all of this is some major gearing reduction. look into dual cases you are going to need lower gearing with bigger tires to get anywhere.

[CRaSHnBuRN]

BTW, if you go rockwells, buy a complete 2.5 ton truck to get them from. Then sell the remaining non-steer axle to robert so he can do his rear rockwell/53 inch tall tire swap and we can all laugh at him :flipoff2:

[DRAGOONRANCH]

I am looking for a good trail rig that is still gonna be able to do a little blacktop drivin. I dont care if it is legal, as we live in the middle of nowhere and the fuzz are lookin for little belly dragin cars, not trucks. I started out wanting a good mud truck, so I might be a little hard to convince at times that "the air up there" is not always as sweet. I went out to Katemcy and loved it. I would have never thought the trails was where it's at, but it beats throwin a rod in the mud. Now, why keep the chevy? Call me whatever you want, but there are already plenty of jeeps, and I want to stay domestic. Plus, the truck already has plenty of room (i.e. more room for my beer belly). Not couning rims and tires (which I figure will run $3k for what I want), I am looking at a budget of around 6 to 8k on the suspension, maybe more if the axles are more than what I think. I am currently workin overseas, so me wrenchin on this thing is almost out of the question. I do have facilities (moms carport), but no one there to do the work. I can do any type of welding and such, this is not a problem, but getting there to do it is. I have no regrets about loosing plenty of sheet metal. I would like to keep the bed intact ( I have kind of grown fond of the old stepside look), but if the fenders have to go, so be it. The doubler will sure be a "must have".

[stx4wheeler]

i think 6 inches will work, and minimize some of the body cab problems, with the huge meats. i think a 60/14 combo would be fine for you, rockwells are way to heavy and gay in my opinion. With a set of chromo sahfts for the 60 you could run 44's and prollly get away fine, and this would prolly keep you around your price range 1 grand or so for shafts,1grand for the 60, and another grand for gears and locker.

An arb would be nice up front especially to make steering easier with that big a tire. You can go full hydro or hydro assist, i like hydro assist myself from what i have seen, versus full hydro, full hydro would be better on the rocks, but hydro assist will be more driver friendly on the road-from what i hear about full hydro.

i also like the idea of keeping the stepside bed cause it looks cool, and you dont see it alot, and i am all about being original myself, thats why i wouldnt trade my pile for any jeep. But if the bed stays then be prepared for it to get smashed some unless, you did a mild exo on it. Only problem with this is now your truck is a couple inches wider.

Now i have mixed feeling about the lift, right now i have about 6 inches i think on my bronco with 38's. I really dont like the way it feels when wheeling it mainly at clayton, feels way to top heavy on some obstacles, so i plan to lower it a couple inches this summer, but that is a lot easier to do with 38's than 44's.

As fpr beadlocks i say go with the Humer h-1 beadlocks cause i think they look wicked pissah with big meats.

As for fuel delivery, i would go with a chevy tbi(efi) system cause it is fairly easy to do, and fairly cheap for your truck.

[Doug Krebs]

I think if I went with a TSL I'd rather stay with a 42" because it's a couple inches skinnier.

If you went with a big wide bogger and wanted to mud efficiently I think you'd have to get more horsepower.

I think like most people, keep it to a 6" lift, 42's or 44's, move the front axle forward, do a doubler, and I'd go full hydro if you can afford it.

Ideas:

blazer on mogs (http://www.bc4x4.com/fv/2002/hulk/)

Not sure what this is as pirate is down (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=208898)

Pics of a guy with mogs on a truck similar to yours (http://community.webshots.com/user/blazr774001)

[eight]

I wouldn't put the time and money into building up that truck. It has tires, wheels, axles, and lift you're not gonna use anyway. And the body is falling off the frame. I'd sell it and find a stock one in better condition to build up. Keep the stepside bed if you want. Building a stock truck would be the same work, or maybe easier if there are things on yours that you'd want to undo or redo.

And seeing as you're gonna have to have someone else build it up, it's gonna cost some money. You can probably find one allready built for less than you'll spend to have it built up. Seems lots of people put a lot of money into these things and then don't use or don't like them and sell them at a big loss. Take advantage of that.

[Cajun]

Brung. Ed. http://www.alaska4x4network.com/showthread.php?t=4639

Don't worry about wheeling a fullsize, they're fun too. I don't know how much sheetmetal you want to hang on to, but if I were building a fullsize truck, the only sheetmetal I'd keep would be the cab. It certainly opens up your options, and I dig the "truggy" look.

You don't have to go high to run big tires either. I wheel with 3 K5 Blazers, one on 42s with 6" lift, (6" front, 2" rear + shackle flip), one on 42s with 4" lift (52" rear springs up front, shackle flip rear), and one on 44s with 4" lift (52" rear springs up front, 63" springs + shackle flip rear).

EDIT: For tires, go with the new 47" Swamper LTB. It's not so damn wide (17"). You're going to be wide enough as-is.

[stx4wheeler]

*** andy that truggy has some sick fab work done to it, that thing is awesome.

[Doug Krebs]

*** andy that truggy has some sick fab work done to it, that thing is awesome.

You've never seen bgreen's freak? Maybe I'm just a chevy fag :rainbow:

[CRaSHnBuRN]

yeah, thats the one I meant when I said the beast. The work the guy does is crazy clean, and he really thinks outside the box.

[uglyota]

wow that front end looks strangely similar to a certain red truck turned black that I spent way too much of my life working on :confused2
:flipoff2:

[CRaSHnBuRN]

really? I think they look nothing alike :confused: Well other than a red cab with tubing on it

[uglyota]

http://www.alaska4x4network.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7090&stc=1&d=1141708646
http://tamor.us/members-rigs/albums/album44/rebuild7.jpg
okay I guess there are only so many ways you can tube the front of a truck cab

[AggieTJ2007]

i kinda like the top one, looks really mean

[sasquatch]

tractor tires, whoooeee

[jerryg79]

tractor tires, whoooeee

Those guys drive in alaskas version of a swamp it is pretty bad ass and their trucks are pretty serious. They're literally in the middle of nowhere, I think they had to leave a truck for an entire winter one time.

[Cajun]

Those guys drive in alaskas version of a swamp it is pretty bad ass and their trucks are pretty serious. They're literally in the middle of nowhere, I think they had to leave a truck for an entire winter one time.

Yeah, some of their trip reports are epic. Great reading :gigem:

[fbronco86]

This is a bad dude

[Cajun]

Floating trackhoes like the one pictured are fairly common down here. They're very cool.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

I should have pics of the diffs and measurements on the rear springs today. I am not real worried about the body, gives me a while to get the running gear right, so I cam hammer the **** out of the fenders and cabs. I think I have a few shells I can get my hands on anyways. I might have access to an old ex-cab (83-85?) yota that my runnin gear could go under when I get this one close, so I am not too worried about loosin that stuff. I figure a 10 bolt w/ 35's on the yota would handle real well. I like the truggy look, but i am pretty set on keepin as much of the bed as possible. I think with some good rock sliders, an inner rollcage, and maybe a cage in or around the bed would not be too bad. Anyone heard any news onthe new atlas (4 spd i think). I need to do alittle more research on that one. If this one goes well, I may stay in the bowtie family and get a S-10. I had a 94 that was an awesome truck for a 4cyl 2wd. Lots of choices, a plethora (my big word for the day) of companys with **** loads of parts and accessories, a willingness to experiment, and good peoples to give advice. I can't loose. I really appreciate your thoughts and time guys, keep it up. :cheers:

[uglyota]

is this yota complete?
if so you'd be much better off building it from stock. And please don't put a 10bolt under it

[eight]

I think an S10 would be a great start. Get one with a 4.3, 700r4, and 231. Then double that 231 to a d300. Put some d60 and somethin under it and run 40-44" tires. It'd be basically like a toyota but cheaper and more powerful. Low geared for rocks, plenty of power for mud, and fairly light.

[uglyota]

are s10 frames any good?

[Sharpe]

They are fully boxed.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

Yep, the toy is complete, but will need work on the hampster under the hood. But it is in decent shape. This one is a few years off I figure. The measurement came back on the rear springs, 52". I love the body style of the early and mid 90's S-10. Especialy the ex-cab. You can't beat the 4.3 into the ground, mine have always taken more than they should. Ofcourse everyone used to admire how much gitty-up my 4.3 in the 94 had (it was a 4cyl 2.2l, those idiots) That truck was my Little red express, it made many of trips to North Carolina and back with me (doing 90 the whole way). Good lord i abused the **** outa that truck.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

I just wanted yall to know I will buy yall all a beer when I get back. I do love the beer. I have always loved the beer. Here, I'll show you.

[BMFScout]

That is badass. One of my nieces first words was beer...

[uglyota]

my parents have a story about me in diapers waddling around picking up empties and drinking the last few drops, no pics though.

'course I was 14...is that still cute or just sad?
:D

[BMFScout]

depends on whether or not you had a ball gag in your mouth...

[uglyota]

that's a negatory...
:eek:?

[DRAGOONRANCH]

I got friends that could use diapers while drinking, you can't ride with em anywhere. Its always, stop, I gotta pee. Atleast its a good reason for em to get out and get more beer. :gigem:

[jerryg79]

I got friends that could use diapers while drinking, you can't ride with em anywhere. Its always, stop, I gotta pee. Atleast its a good reason for em to get out and get more beer. :gigem:

I hate people like that!

[BMFScout]

what?! Who doesn't like a ball gag now and then?

Jerry, you are people like that, Nancy...

[jerryg79]

what?! Who doesn't like a ball gag now and then?

Jerry, you are people like that, Nancy...

I was being sarcastic.....its a new thing im trying

[BMFScout]

I don't think it will work for you, better go back to being sensitive to everyone's feelings Jerry...:)

[agjohn02]

You may run into steering box tire contact issues but I'm not sure how that would play out after moving the axle forward, the box may end up inside the tire's scrub radius.


i wouldnt call that scrub radius but point taken.

[CRaSHnBuRN]

Have you ever considered having two rigs? Take the chevy, throw on a bigger set of tires, and keep it set up for the mud and other places a fullsizes work well and you want more power. Then take the yota, add your current tires, a rollcage, lockers, and maybe a doubler, and use that for the trail/rockcrawling rig. The toyota would be much cheaper and easier to build for this purpose, and would fit on the trails better. For rockcrawling and trailriding, you don't need lots of power to make things work. Most of the time you're better off staying light and small with a mild engine. If you allready have the toy, you could build it to be pretty damned strong and go anywhere for a few grand, and that would still leave you several grand to throw at a big lift and tires for the chevy.

[stx4wheeler]

hey yota fags dont try and convert him, he's ours. :flipoff2:

[J Cooper]

also guys remember Ed is not a tate/kevin/lissa size person. I barely fit in a toyota.

[CRaSHnBuRN]

hey yota fags dont try and convert him, he's ours. :flipoff2:

face it, in the end he'll see the light and he'll be one of ours :flipoff2:

As for the toys being small, yeah that early body style is little, but thats what they make sawzalls for. Just make him fit :D How big is Ed anyway?

[DRAGOONRANCH]

Thats me in the suit. HO HO HO mother *******

[AggieTJ2007]

While I think toyotas are pretty cool, and cheap to build. There isn't anything new that you can do with a Toyota. Fullsizes on the other hand, are fun to watch on the trail. Mainly cause I don't want to be the only one busting body panels

[Sharpe]

i wouldnt call that scrub radius but point taken.
What would you call it then? I can see how what I said might have been confusing but what I meant was that if you move the axle forward, this also moves the "bubble" inside the scrub radius of the tire forward and if the power steering box ends up inside this bubble, great. Comprende?


hey yota fags dont try and convert him, he's ours.


face it, in the end he'll see the light and he'll be one of ours

Does this make anyone else think of Star Wars? Ed, as I've told people before, the "perfect wheelin rig" is about halfway between a fullsize and mini. You can start from either end and work your way towards the middle. It is much cheaper to start with a fullsize and cut it up and down than it is to start with a mini and extend the wheelbase make square pegs fit in round holes, etc.

[agjohn02]

Comprende?

i said point taken didnt i?

too tired to draw it so i looked it up. i dont know what to call it, just not scrub radius. im just picky about racecar engineering terms.

same principle, this is just independent susp. on a solid axle the sai is synonymous with kingpin angle

http://www.desertrides.com/reference/images/terms/sai-scrub.gif

[Sharpe]

The "scrub radius" I am thinking of is when viewed from above, the arc the tire makes around the kingpins/balljoints. All of my edjumication in this area came from an article on one of the rags awhile back. Basically what I got out of it is ideally with perfect backspacing the center of your tire footprint does not move when you turn the wheel from lock to lock. If you decrease the backspacing it makes the tire stick out further and the centerpoint of the tire footprint makes an arc when you turn from lock to lock, effectively making it physically harder to turn. I think this is why my truck's steering works so well without hydro assist right now, I am running stock wheels so I assume I have a small scrub radius. I may try to find the article in our mountain of magazines when I get home in the morning and draw some pictures in paint.

[agjohn02]

yeah, you pretty much got the definition of scrub radius. you dont have to teach me anything here, trust me. im just saying you misused the term. thats all. your scrub radius is measured in the low single digit inches. when considering if tires rub other things, scrub radius isnt something you bring into a conversation. thats is unless, you use a lot of backspacing to correct said problem and then say to yourself, "man, i just fawked my scrub radius." no big deal here, arguement is a moot point by now. you said "the center of your scrub radius" im saying thats your kingpin and no steering box is gonna fit there. get it?

[Sharpe]

10-4 dawg.

[Seth]

Ed, as I've told people before, the "perfect wheelin rig" is about halfway between a fullsize and mini.


kinda like a scout

[Sharpe]

kinda like a scout
Yes and I was actually thinking that when I typed it out. If you can get over the stigma associated with scouts then they're great. :flipoff2:

[uglyota]

yeah, that's why all the comp rigs these days are going to 110"+ wheelbases...much more capable

[Seth]

scout traveller = 118" i think tons of room

[DRAGOONRANCH]

Here is a little more background on the beast. I found it in Missourri on e-bay. I could have bought a truck alot closer and in alot better shape, but then I wouldn't have been able to make the road trip to get it with my brothers. It was a helluf a trip. We left the house and headed to Buffalo, Tx. where we paid for the gooseneck I have now. We left there and headed to Pro-Trak Trailers (http://www.protraktrailers.com/index.htm) in Wills Point to pick it up. When we got there, they told us to come back later, they were not finished and needed a few hours. When we came back the guy was bringing it out of the bay and we hooked up. The paint was still tacky and there are a few places you can still see finger prints in the paint from our oogling over it. We left there, put the Banks Six-Gun in #3, and hauled a$$ (we were about 3 hours behind schedule and still had to make it to Hot Springs). We mad good time and were averaging 8 mpg at about 85mph. We had reservations at a place called Brady Mountain Resort (http://www.bradymtn.com/). It was a great place, except for coming in way after dark and the roads are windy as ****. Made it real fun pulling the 32' for the first time. We left out the next morning for Poplar Bluff, Missouri. We got there, and had to winch the truck up on the trailer (it had been parked after its last wheeling trip when they burnt the cluthc and it had been sitting for months) with my Artic Cat 650 (http://www.arctic-cat.com/atvs/lineups/specs.asp?y=115&c=116&s=120&m=720). It was a strain, but it did the job. We sure got alot of stares drivin through town hunting lunch down. We got even more as we poured the coals to it headed back to Brady Mountain. We spent a day there at the resort wheeling the 4 wheeler on the trails around there, and cooked out for lunch that day. The next morning we loaded up and shagged *** again. The first two fillups we were averaging about 6 mpg at almost 90 mph on average. The next and last was at Carl's Corner (http://www.wnbiodiesel.com/locations-TX-Carls%20Corner.html) with some bio-diesel, and the numbers at that one moved up to about 7 mpg but we only averaged about 80 mph on that stretch since we had to go through the Metro-mess of I635 in Dallas. Carl's used to be the premier truckstop on 35, and you could always catch a good band on the weekends. They have tried to resore it some, and are coming along pretty well, but I fear the good ol days are gone. We stopped in Temple to meet the folks for supper and hit Vato Zone for a new carburator (They couldn't even find the old one in the system). All in all, it was a great trip and got to spend some quality time with my brothers. I don't get to see them much, so I would give this trip an A++.

We tried the nest day to jump the truck off with the new carb inplace. No luck. So we got a chain, hooked it up behing the 4-door and off we went. We finaly got it to break loose and crank, but I forgot to put the oil fill cap and air filter back on, so it was slinging oil, and before it cranked it was spittin fuel out the carb. Needless to say, the oil and gas mix hit the manifold (now that it was getting fire to it) and set it off. We jumped out, grabbed a water jug lid (jug had no water in it) and starting throwing loose gravel from the side of the road. I was wore out from the trip, getting close to having to head back to work, so we parked it, pulled the batteries, and rolled up the windows. It sat under the barn for about 4 months before I could get back to it. That is for another post though. :beer:

[DRAGOONRANCH]

Brady passed out
Eric passed out
Brady up on the Trailer
The three musketeers :gigem:

[uglyota]

it said "Half Assed" on the windshield when you bought it!?

[BMFScout]

That IS a selling point! :)

[DRAGOONRANCH]

You couldn't see it in the e-bay pics. Like I said, it was bought partialy for the road trip involved, and I new nothin about crawlin' at the time. I sure wish I had know before, I might have held out for somethin in better shape, but what the he!!. :flipoff2:

I called Atlas today about their new 4sp transfer case. They are wanting about $3150 for it with the adapter to the sm465. This seems like it would be a great deal with the 10.6:1 low in it. They dont have one with the 10 sp for the 465 though, so how would I go about changing this or finding out if it even has one like this, short of pulling the transfer case off?

[Sharpe]

Your tranny has the 10 spline output. GM switched to the 32 spline output and hydraulic clutch in 85, thats prety much your only option. 4 speed transfer case? Didnt people used to call that a non-syncronized transmission?

[DRAGOONRANCH]

Ok, here are the pics of the axles. The front springs measure 48" and the rear are 52".

[Sharpe]

As I suspected, the front is a 10 bolt and the rear is a 14 bolt full floater. The 14 bolt is as good as its going to get for the rear but a D60 would not be a bad idea for the front.

[uglyota]

Good detective work, super sleuth!
:flipoff2:

[DRAGOONRANCH]

See if these help anyone.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

Ok, so here's what I have gathered so far.

Move my rear 52" leaves to the front, find some 56"s for the rear w/ a shackle flip. I can get a rebuilt d60 for $3200 (best price so far, not through searching). The gears will prolly be 5.13s with detroits front and rear. This gearing will put me about 2600 rpms at 65, I just have to figure out what to do for a transfer case. Atlas has their new 4 spd w/ ratios of (2.0:1, 2.72:1, & 5.44:1) or (2.72:1, 3.8:1, & 10.34:1) with a 1:1 in high. I wanted to go with this one for the ease of setup (not having to build a doubler), but they don't have one that will mate to my 10 spline 465. But, this would be a good time to replace the old tranny with a new one w/ a hydraulic clutch. Hummer rims w/ the 44" boggers. Prolly a hydro-assist steering setup with an big automatic tranny cooler to cool it off and act as an extra resivoir (there is plenty of room in the chevy between the fan and radiator). I will be leaving the bench seat in it, till I can build a set of aluminum seats and will have our local upholsterer throw some padding on them and cover em up. :beer:

[DRAGOONRANCH]

Came across an interesting suspension set up. Its an Airock (http://www.offroadonly.com/products/suspension/airock/airock1.shtml) system. Anybody heard of it. Is there any others like it.

[uglyota]

Looks like it's designed more to replace the coil springs in a stock or RE-lifted TJ, you'd be designing a link suspension from the ground up and would be better off with coilovers or air shocks if you wanted some bling.
your previous post looks like a good plan. Leaf springs will take much less time and be easier to get working right as compared to a link setup. Keep searching on the 60, that sounds like what you should expect to pay for a fairly built one.
Hummer rims good idea, maybe see what kind of wheel/tire combos you can find cheap
Replacing tranny based on output and hydraulic clutch, maybe not? 465 has removable bellhousing right? And can you not upgrade the output shaft? Also look into the STAK transfer cases. They make a 2-speed that's supposed to be a pretty economical alternative to the Atlas.
No clue on the hydro assist, check out the experiences Frick and the other fullsize guys have had with theirs
:gigem:

[CRaSHnBuRN]

go to the toy section of pirate and look up a build by 4mogger. I'm pretty sure he had a shop modify a airock system to use on his 4runner. I haven't looked at the thread in a while, but I don't think it worked out like he hoped. I would stick to leaf springs if I were you. Simple and effective.

[texasxj]

nevermind re read post

[Sharpe]

No one makes airshocks big enough for a fullsize that I know of. I think fabtec just came out with a monster 4" diameter coilover though. I would just stick with leafsprings for now for simplicities sake.

[stx4wheeler]

ed since you got a less time than most of us and a little more skrilla than most of us, why dont you just by a dynatrac 60 that you can customize how you want it and they do all the work for you, and all you do is bolt it in and go play, minus getting a new front driveshaft?

[DRAGOONRANCH]

I have looked at that, but they want nearly $5500 for one not including shipping. That seems like alot of dough to drop on one. They are nice and shiny when you get it though.

[stx4wheeler]

yeah you pay a premium when you buy there stuff, i couldnt see forking over the dough for one cause i cant see my time being worth more than money in my book in the near future, but this may now be your case. but if you figure how much a 60 is prolly gonna cost you its not to bad, lets say 800-1000 for a 60, then a 200 to rebuild some small parts, then 500-800 for a detroit or arb, 200 for gears plus another could hundred to get them installed, then a good set of shafts and ctms, prolly another 1000-1500. and lets say another 300 for steering. yeahs its alot cheaper by a couple grand to do it this way its just wether you wanna fawk with it.

[texasxj]

and one of the 2 fat guys broke his snazzy dynatrac 60 at katemcy last year! I think it was only a shaft though.

[agjohn02]

good, that dude told me id never get the LT1 running. kiss my ass fatso it was long haulin' within two weeks. 2 fat guys sucks. although he did haul my engine for cheap.

[stx4wheeler]

and one of the 2 fat guys broke his snazzy dynatrac 60 at katemcy last year! I think it was only a shaft though.

did you see how he broke it. it wasnt some little obstacle, the tires was wegded between two rocks, and he was romping on it with ultra low gearing. this could have had something to do with it.

[CRaSHnBuRN]

I know you talked to the D60 guy on pirate about one of his used axles, but did you check to see what he would build you a new one for? Just curious

[DRAGOONRANCH]

I think its gonna be about the same as a dynatrak or pretty close.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

OK, I am going to start a cost break-down here. I will come back and edit it as the project progresses.

$1500 - Truck-chevy 1/2 tonn off of e-bay


$7250 - Pro-Trak 32' gooseneck w/ dovetail
$427 - for diesel (tried to be ecco friendly and bought some of Willie's bio-diesel (http://www.wnbiodiesel.com/))
$345 - 3 nights at Brady Mountain Resort near Hot Springs, Arkansas
$8022 - Road trip to pick up the truck
I am not counting the trailer or cost of the trip, just threw it in there.


$1800 - GM crate 350
$ 145 - Holley 4bbl carb from AA (Advance Auto)
$ 325 - power steering pump, hoses, gear box, and labor
$ 660 - fuel pump, alternator, motor mounts, fuel hose, and labor to instal engine
$ 125 - Sony CD radio from Circuit City
$ 100 - Cobra CB w/ antenna from Flying J in Waco
$ 80 - Fan Shroud from Tranum Country in Cameron
$ 260 - 2 yellow top Optima's from AA
$ 100 - 1/0 guage welding lead for battery cables and winch lines Airgas in Belton
$ 145 - u-joints and front drive shaft from AA
$5240 Sub-Total

$ 87 - 2 vatozone special electric fans
$ 60 - Misc. electrical supplies (butt connectors, switches, fuses, and relays) from vatozone
$ 125 - Cordless dremel from Lowe's
$ 190 - Jack stands, floor jack, creeper, and stool from AA
$1850 - Warn 9500ti on receiver hitch frame and hook-ups front and rear from TruckWear in Temple
$2774 - Sub-Total


$2600 - Dana 60/70 combo w/ dually hubs
$ 550 - Propane conversion from classifieds on PBB
$2300 - 44" Boggers (5 of them) from AJ on PBB (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=459030)
$ 200 - 5 hummer rims from USA6x6 (http://www.usa6x6.com/products_and_services/beadlock_wheels.html)
$ 460 - PVC hummer beadlock inserts and pressed recenters from USA6x6 (http://www.usa6x6.com/products_and_services/beadlock_wheels.html)
$ 190 - shackle flip
$6300 - Sub-Total

$ 655 - PRP Daily Driver" Seats (2" extra wide +25 bones a seat) from RBS (http://www.rockbuggysupply.com/seats.htm)
$ 120 - 5 point harnes from RBS (http://www.rockbuggysupply.com/)
$1100 - OBA 12V electric compressor Th-2000 from KILBY (http://www.kilbyenterprises.com/trailhead.htm)
$ 375 - Two 40lb propane tanks from Pro Tank Supply (http://www.protanksupply.com/tanksdetail.asp?Size=1012)
$2250 - Sub-Total

NEW STUFF
$3600 - Atlas 4spd TC (10.3 low/low, flange outputs front and rear and adapter to 465)
$3600 - Sub-Total

$20164 - Grand Total so far

Younguns, don't try this at home :flipoff2:

[Reckless]

Running over towel head with truck, Priceless!

[agjohn02]

$1800 - GM crate 350
$ 145 - Holley 4bbl carb
$ 325 - power steering pump, hoses, gear box, and labor
$ 660 - fuel pump, alternator, motor mounts, fuel hose, and labor to instal engine


you could get a chevy 5.3l with a lot of this stuff and fuel injection for $800

[uglyota]

No one makes airshocks big enough for a fullsize that I know of. I think fabtec just came out with a monster 4" diameter coilover though. I would just stick with leafsprings for now for simplicities sake.
Dibble runs coilovers too...

[AggieTJ2007]

yeah, I have seen those monster coilovers, they had them on display at 4wp today. looks pretty sweet

[Sharpe]

Dibble runs coilovers too...
Huh? I know plenty of fullsize buggies and truggies run coilovers but I was just throwing out the new gigantic one they came out with for consideration.

[uglyota]

Dibble's rig has got to weigh as much as a built fullsize

[jerryg79]

When Dibble jumps in a lake, Dibble doesnt get wet, the water gets Dibble.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

Ok, now to the tranny debate. The 465 in the truck is in good shape. But,....

I didn't much care for the way it handled. I have always been a fan of a stick when towing, and kick my self in the *** for not getting the 6spd in the tow rig. But when it comes to off roading, auto is the only way to go. It just seems to give you a more even distrobution of power. I know that would mean losing granny, but I just think its worth it, and you can make up for that difference with the right doubler combo. Now, what are the advantages of the 350, 400, and 700. I have used all of them at different times, but I was always like most folks. Put it in D and go. I like the idea of the 700 with overdrive to help out when pounding the pavement, but I don't know if it would hold up to the abuse the big rubber will put it through. I will quit babbling on about it and get back to work.

Ok, I won't lie, Ill get back to watchin everybody else work.

[uglyota]

The only input I have for this is that your torque converter is generally thought of as "doubling" your gearing. If your 1st gear*4lo*axle ratio is 60:1, a torque converter will let you crawl as if you had 120:1
Don't get a 700r4 though...

[jerryg79]

I've heard alot of good ideas in my life, but I dont think any of them started out "So I'll put in a 700R4" or "Then I'll drink some Jaeger"

[uglyota]

Jaeger is always a good idea

[DRAGOONRANCH]

Thats kind of what I thought, guess thats why no one puts one in in a build up.


Me and Mr. Jaeger had a disagreement once...

It didn't end well for me....
Ill stick to my crown and budlite

[Doug Krebs]

700's have a lower first gear... They can survive if built right (not a raptor). I went from a 700R4 to a 465. It's all personal preference and people can debate until my buggy gets done and never come to a conclusion. For comps it seems auto's are the way to go. I personally prefer stick.

One advantage manuals have is their dumb simplicity.

[agjohn02]

I've heard alot of good ideas in my life, but I dont think any of them started out "So I'll put in a 700R4" or "Then I'll drink some Jaeger"


i like mine and have had no trouble with it, just the flexplate getting bent and chewing up the tc bearings, but thats my fault for not checking the flexplate before putting it back together.

[Sharpe]

I would put a TH400 in. Yes 700R4's can be built to handle more power and last longer, but you pay for it. How much street driving will you actually be doing with this truck? I would assume not much so I wouldnt worry about the overdrive. I've been tossing around the idea of swapping a manual in my trail rig but I'll probably just stick with auto's (I have a th400). When you are out wheeling working the clutch is just one more thing to think about.

[Doug Krebs]

When you are out wheeling working the clutch is just one more thing to think about.

Do you think about working the clutch on the street? If you're just learning yes, but after a while it becomes second nature. Ever drive a stick car for a long peroid of time, then get into an automatic and get scared when your left foot doesn't find the clutch?

[Sharpe]

This is true. Amanda's truck is a stick and I drive it almost every day but all the ones I've ever owned have been autos. Over on CK5 most guys like wheelin 6.2's and 454s with manuals but not 350's, they say they kill them too much.

[uglyota]

they need to learn how to heel-toe...
I freakin love driving a standard off-road, especially because most of the time when you get scared all you have to do to get safe is push in the clutch

[agjohn02]

they need to learn how to heel-toe...
I freakin love driving a standard off-road, especially because most of the time when you get scared all you have to do to get safe is push in the clutch


thats true, but then again you couldnt do half of what you do without the infinite gearing of the slipping clutch.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

I found a doubler set up (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=458599), just wondering if it was worth the grand they want for it.

[Doug Krebs]

I found a doubler set up (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=458599), just wondering if it was worth the grand they want for it.

you'd have to change out the input shaft and possibly the adapter. Also, what side drop is the 205? Have you decided on a tranny?

[eight]

Yea that's for a dodge or jeep.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

I have another problem, my brother went to dallas to pick-up hummer rims, and the ****ing idiot took the old tires off, and didn't put the internal beadlock back in. Is this going to be a problem, or am I just freakin out for nothin. The gas up there, food for my brother and his buddy, and the rims. Good lord almighty, I am about to blow a top here. I found them on an ebay add for 120 bucks for 4 rims and tires (tires were at 25% tread, so basicaly no good) so my brother told him he could keep the tires if he wanted to break them down. He did, and kept the runflat. Maybe this is ablessing, but I feel like taking an LWOP (leave without pay) to go put a beat down on this a-hole.

[agjohn02]

most people use pvc pipe in place of them any how

[uglyota]

freakin out for nothing. Get PVC inserts and you're a step ahead.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

I am still pissed off that the guy jood me out of them, and it dont help it would take 20 hours in a plane cramped up with someones cryin baby and some old dood droolin on me to lay the smack down. I would just pull the trust 7mag out and get it over with. Ok, blood pressure going back to normal, ...... funny, i have never seen that tint of green on my hands before. How come my britches are ripped at the knees and my shirt all in shreds. And whats that giant hole in my wall.....


Ok, now onto the tranny delima....





how do you tell one from the other, is there a difference in the atoms apple or mustache....


oops, that got way wrong real quick.


I have a line on a th400, but guess I should post up in the wanted section for a 400. Anybody got one in good shape they want to get rid of. Ill take the transfer too if ya dont want to seperate it. You cant ever have enough transfer cases sitting around. I will start searching for the pvc inserts, i had heard of this, but didn't know how hard they are to get ahold of.

[Doug Krebs]

I have a line on a th400, but guess I should post up in the wanted section for a 400. Anybody got one in good shape they want to get rid of. Ill take the transfer too if ya dont want to seperate it. You cant ever have enough transfer cases sitting around. I will start searching for the pvc inserts, i had heard of this, but didn't know how hard they are to get ahold of.

If you find the right combo 400/205 you're half way done with the doubler, as the 205 will have the correct input shaft.


Make sure the 400 you have a line on is 4wd. Also, I believe there is a K case that is better. I could be mistaken though, it might be for the 350. Don't know too much about that auto's since I like sticks.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

It has a 203. I am still wanting to go with the atlas IV. With the 10:1 low, kinda makes up for the lack of granny. I don't know why I even posted the link to the doubler here, should've gone in the "good deals".

Whats a doubler cost to build up, if you had to start from scratch?

The 400 w/ atlas and 5.13s puts me crawlin at 133:1 and w/ 4.88s at 127:1.

I think that's not to shabby, and i have a 33:1 and 46:1 in the two medium atlas gears. Just right for scootin down a trail. And running 68 at 2700rpm down the black top. It prolly wont see much of that, but it wont hurt for the short trips to town.

[AggieTJ2007]

well, its about $50 for each case + 500 or so for the doubler, plus any new bearing or seals that you need.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

I forgot to mention one big plus to the auto tranny issue. My little bro is going to be driving this truck too, and prolly a few other unexperienced froaders, so the auto would help out big time for that. He won't be headed to Boobicon anytime soon, but he will end up on the trails with it at times. He is learning on the 95 yota 5spd, so he is going to learn right, but the cheby will be too much for him on some climbs. He prolly wont be able to reach the pedals good enough anyways, and that manual clutch is a *****.

The tow rig is going under the knife next week, so as soon as its out, I am hoping to get some stuff started on it. I will get with my super secret/ uber doober design/build team (Team Foolsize) that has assembled for this project and see what they think. Hopefuly we will have pics and details rolling in soon. I am pretty sure the front 60 is a go, waiting on conformation on the tranny, got the rims and secure pvc centers for them this weekend. I will let the Team Foolsize take care of the suspension as they are the subject mater experts on this (and everything else for that matter). I have all the confidence that the team will come in behind schedule, over budget, and pissed off at me and will leave it in pieces in my driveway, but what the hell. Everybody has to have one of those projects now and again.

Oh yeah, jeepers ( = :rainbow: ) suck big hairy donkey **** Foolsizes rool :flipoff2:

[AggieTJ2007]

btw if you are interested I have a line on a chevy 203

[eight]

I have a chevy 203, I think someone was supposed to buy it but that never happened.

[Sharpe]

Where to begin. For the sake of my fingers typing all this ****, please only as one question at a time. Here is everything you need to know about doublers and the transfer cases you need to run one.

http://www.offroaddesign.com/catalog/doubler.htm

If you have any questions after you read that let me know. As far as the rims go, PVC beadlocks are old news. According to billavista's writeup on pirate, the performance cryogenics guys is make a steel beetlock now, it looks like a skeleton of the pvc ones and is allegedly lighter and just as strong. I wouldnt sweat over the guy keeping the magnesium beadlocks, most people burn them for fun because they will damage your tires if you run them with low PSI.

203's are only worth about $20-50, unless they are from a TH400 then they are worth about 200, even more with the adapter. The reason they are worth so much more is chevy only used the 203 behind th400's for two years in 3/4 tons in the 70s, so they are prety damn rare. I would jump on the th400/np203 combo.

A TH400's pan looks like the state of indiana, a th350's pan is a square with one corner knocked off, and a th700r4's pan is a regular square. There is no difference in any TH400 case, only th350s had the "k case" versions and I've heard that is a bunch off bull****.

A complete doubler setup with a th400 will cost you between $1500-2000 depending how much you pay for the cases. The biggest complaint most people have about chevy doublers is that they use two of the hardest to find transfer cases chevy used.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

Ok, the guy is ready to ship the tranny. Where would be a good place to send it. I have never had to have a part like that shipped before.

[Doug Krebs]

Ok, the guy is ready to ship the tranny. Where would be a good place to send it. I have never had to have a part like that shipped before.

You mean a good carrier to ship it? Forward air is usually the cheapest if there is a terminal around. However, Karl informed you can ship big things through Grey hound very cheaply. Maybe he'll chime in.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

Doug, sent ya a pm.

Thanks

I am still waiting on him to tell me who he is going to use to ship it. I should have had my grandad just go get one from gatesville. They have a pretty good setup there, or so he tells me. He picked up a tranny for my s-10 there one time. I new dealing with the rejects on pirate was gonna be a headache. Maybe this guy will come through. :beer:

[DRAGOONRANCH]

Ok, just found a propane set up (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=458779). I figure this should be a good deal for us. My folks have 6 broiler houses for Sanderson Farms out of Bryan, and they are one of the bigest customers at the propane place. Hopefuly we can just get one of the tanks set up to fill out of, or get a big cut on the price at their pump in waco. I will have to find a good tank is all. I am not going to try to find someone to ship the old tanks, too much of a hastle.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

I have been scouring the net trying to find a good th400 somewhere, but I am not paying out my nose for one. By the time I find one shipped to the house, it will be entirely too much. I think I will just get it from advanced auto, the club discount there is killer. I saved a wad last time I went in (had to replace my wore out jack stands and floor jack). They have three output shaft sizes and I have no idea which one I need, any help on this? It looks like the cost will be around $850 or so before the discount. I hate to pay this much, but if I get one off of pirate, its gonna take a dump on me. That is just my luck! :flipoff2: Well enough of my rambling tonight, I need to get some rest. Someone needs to tell these folks over here we are on their side, maybe they will quit mortaring us so we can get some sleep. ****suckers!!

[Sharpe]

The ouput shaft depends on what t-case you want to run and even then on what adapter and case version.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

I guess all of this would be a moot point if the new 4spd atlas had a 10 spline adapter for the 465. I guess I am being a hard headed ol fool on wanting the 4spd, but I think moving to the auto for now will be very beneficial for many reasons. The atlas is going to be one of the few big ticket items on this build, next up will be the tires and front d60. I don't know how much the shackle flip is going to be, but I figure some beer company will break into Forbe's 500 this year. :beer:

[Sharpe]

If you havent seen it already yo should check out www.coloradok5.com. It has alot more chevy info than pirate and the forsale part is always prety active.

[agjohn02]

new 4spd atlas


there's a 4 speed now?

[DRAGOONRANCH]

Yep, here (http://www.atlas-tc.com/atlas4sp.html) is a link to it.

[Sharpe]

Holy crap it even has synchros. I do believe that makes it an extremely short manual transmission.

[Sharpe]

Hey Ed according to this chart http://www.atlas-tc.com/download/SelectChart.pdf they do make an apater and input for the 10 spline output SM465. Interestingly enogh, they also aparently make one for a 35 spline 2wd SM465. I would use the 2wd version, since A) it will probably be shorter (not that that really matters in a fullsize) B) it will be stronger and C) 2wd trannies go for dirt cheap.

[agjohn02]

Low Range: (2.0:1, 2.72:1, & 5.44:1) or (2.72:1, 3.8:1, & 10.34:1)
High Range 1:1

thats some gearing right there

[DRAGOONRANCH]

Hey Ed according to this chart http://www.atlas-tc.com/download/SelectChart.pdf they do make an apater and input for the 10 spline output SM465. Interestingly enogh, they also aparently make one for a 35 spline 2wd SM465. I would use the 2wd version, since A) it will probably be shorter (not that that really matters in a fullsize) B) it will be stronger and C) 2wd trannies go for dirt cheap.

I called Atlas awhile back, and they said they do not have the 10 spline adapter for the 4x4 465 for the 4spd. I am just going off of what they told me, this does seem strange as many of them that are out there. I don't know, I guess I will figure it out when I order it next month. I caint wait. Te He He.

[JeepPhisherman]

I called Atlas awhile back, and they said they do not have the 10 spline adapter for the 4x4 465 for the 4spd. I am just going off of what they told me, this does seem strange as many of them that are out there. I don't know, I guess I will figure it out when I order it next month. I caint wait. Te He He.

On the custom order page for the 4speed case, they talk about custom adapters. Might want to call and check with them again, since it lists a 465 adapter now.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

Well, the tire fairy showed up today, and all he left was these two dogs.
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f192/DRAGOONRANCH/Home/200639.jpg

Ha, fooled ya. :flipoff2:
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f192/DRAGOONRANCH/Chevy/200640.jpg

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f192/DRAGOONRANCH/Chevy/200638.jpg

[eight]

What size wheel that take?

[Reckless]

SWEET!!!! nice dogs too

[DRAGOONRANCH]

New centers, and pvc inserts from usa6x6 are on their way and will be headed to the neighbors shop for placement into the 8 bolt hummer rims as soon as they get there. The tires were bought from AJ Johnson on PBB, I highly recomend him, good prices, cool to talk to, and he came through with out a hitch. He also deals in other 4 wheel parts, I think I might order my Atlas through him.

[agjohn02]

What size wheel that take?


i would assume 16.5". thats what h1's are arent they?

[CheapJeep]

Nice tires. :gigem: Good lookin' pup's too. :)

[DRAGOONRANCH]

They are 19.5/44-16.5

I would not have gone with the 16.5 after our discussion on the trail about them at Katemcy, but the hummer rim, albeit not a true cheap alternative once pvc inserts and new centers are bought, seem to be cheaper and stronger than most of the other beadlocks out there. Just something about a good ol' iron wheel that does it for me.

[Reckless]

what is this pvc inserts yall are talking about

[eight]

Yea the hummer rims are good. Just most 16.5s, like the ones you had, suck because the tire falls off real easy. I also have 16.5s but they have beads bigger than any other wheel I know of. I lifted up the front of the dodge trying to break a bead on one today.

So, what ya gonna do with the old tires?

[eight]

PVC inserts just go in place of the stock runflats to provide for bead locking without having a runflat.

[Reckless]

i see that makes since

kopecki has had his eyes on those tires since katemcy

[DRAGOONRANCH]

I don't know what to do whith them yet, may put them on the toy this christmas if I have the time to put the extra wontons under it. If I deide to get rid of them Kopecki, you got dibs.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

I just talked to the guy who I got the tires from, and he got me a quote on the atlas 4spd.

the Atlas itself is $2500 and included is twin stick and cable shifters and 3.8 and no speedo.
the CV flanges are an additional $125 each
the adapter is $230
and shipping will be around $80, give or take $15 to be safe.

But here is the kicker.

The first shipments of these will start in June.

I am sure even if I order now, it won't make it before I come home, so I am going to beat the crap outa the 465/205 this trip, then throw it in after that. :flipoff2:

[uglyota]

what's the wait on a stak case?
Seems like that or a 203/205 doubler are really your only other options

[Sharpe]

You already have the hummer rims? If not, I know a guy who has some for sale. If you might want to work out a partial trade for your old tires, (what size are they BTW), I'll let said guy know.

[Shaggy]

if you do the doubler it takes a couple months after you order it to actually get it also

[DRAGOONRANCH]

I am willing to take my time on the TC. It is important and, unlike moving up to a 60 and putting chromoly in as things break, the only way to do the TC is to do it right the first time.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

Ok, I updated the cost analasys. This has blown the 6k budget right out the door. ***. Here is the link (http://tamor.org/forums/showpost.php?p=100213&postcount=79) to it.

Just doing some progressive thinking, and here is some of what is left to come.

$3000 - Atlas 4spd w/ adapters
$ 700 - PRP seats and harnesses
$1400 - Hydro steering
$ 300 - Propane tanks
$ 300 - York onboard air setup (compressor, tank, and lines)
$1300 - Regear and detroits

So tack on another $7000 and we should be close to trail ready. -pimp-

[agjohn02]

this's gonna be a bad dood!


cage?

[DRAGOONRANCH]

The cage will come when I get home for good, I really want to fab this one up myself. I do a decnt job with this kind of stuff, the mechanical is my weak link. I always fixed hay balers, plows, and trailers. If we had mechanical trouble, we always took it to the shop. Grandad never was mechanicaly inclined, so he never messed with the stuff, and the welding I just picked up from breaking out his old cracker box, and pushing puddles on anything i could find. I worked full time at a large shop in Cameron as a fitter, so I know how to put it together and make it work, even did a few month stint in a chair factory, so gained a little bending experience there (don't ask, this was a very bad time, lots of beer, stoopid biatches, and uber redneck idiot friends). I will put some slider on in June though, I will make them heavy duty so I can use them as a base for the cage.

[Reckless]

hey Ed, my uncle has a twin propane setup for sale. Twin carbs and regs. Ill call him and find out a price

[DRAGOONRANCH]

Rowdy, I have a set up in hand already. I appreciate it though. I will keep it in mind when we start on the toy though.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

OK, I am about to send my h1 rims off to be recentered. I picked up the usa6x6 pressed centers. Now, what backspacing do I need to run the 44" boggers so they dont rub on the springs for when mounted on the d60? Is this the correct diagram that you refer to when talking ab out backspacing, I have seen a few others, and this seems to be the simplest of them.
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f192/DRAGOONRANCH/Chevy/backspacing_measurements.jpg

If I rember right, they come with a 7" or so backspacing, and I figure they need to be close to 3 or 4 inches when through. I have been told to just rum dually hubs, but what is the difference WMS to WMS from a dually to a single axle 60.

[eight]

Yea that's the right one.

I think the centers sit in the wheel at a certain backspace that you can't just change.

Andy has dually hubs on his scout with the hummer wheels. It's pretty wide.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

The centers set real well on a small lip in the rim, but you can change this if needed. I understand that it is just a little more work to ensure they run true.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

Krebs, Sharpe, yall have pm's. Let me know what ya think.

[Cajun]

My front dually hubs give me an effective backspacing of about 4". It's no wider than a fullsize with "normal" wheels, it just looks wide because I have 12" of tire outside my fenders.

Your rear axle WMS--WMS width will be considerably narrower than your fron if you use dually hubs. No big deal, just aesthetics. This bothered me, so I'm using a GM Dually D70 (74" WMS--WMS).

[DRAGOONRANCH]

My front dually hubs give me an effective backspacing of about 4". It's no wider than a fullsize with "normal" wheels, it just looks wide because I have 12" of tire outside my fenders.

Your rear axle WMS--WMS width will be considerably narrower than your fron if you use dually hubs. No big deal, just aesthetics. This bothered me, so I'm using a GM Dually D70 (74" WMS--WMS).

Thanks, I guess I will just have the new center set in on the rim lip and go from there. It should be about right. I will have the guy just tack them inplace anyways, and weld them up after I try them out.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

I got bored and needed to spend some money, so I called Atlas up about the 4spd again. I talked to a guy, and he said that adapter part # 50-9810 would be needed to convert the 10 spl 465 to 23 spl. The lead time is still pretty long on these, he said I shouldn't expect it till mid to late July if ordered now, so I am gonna put the CC back in the wallet for now.

Now onto the question, is this really going to work, or did the guy just blow smoke up my ***? It almost seems to good to be true, but with all the 465's in use, it would seem stupid to not have an adapter. Maybe I have been tokin on the hooka too much again, :flipoff2: but that is for another thread alltogether.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

I was able to get the pane tanks ordered, but no luck on the brackets. I will fab these up myself. A new set of tanks from Pro Tank Supply (http://www.protanksupply.com/tanksdetail.asp?Size=1012) (2 43.5 lbs tanks) delivered for $375. I think I took it in the rectum on this one, but they came highly recomended from a mechanic friend.
I am thinking on holding off on the pane install for a while though. I just need to get the 60 in, the 14bolt regeared and the shackle flip done, then I can wheel it and see where to go next. I am thinking these would be major improvements over what I have now.

I did order some seats from Rock Buggy Supply (http://www.rockbuggysupply.com/seats.htm), they are the daily drivers with the extra 2"s wide option. They are shipping the set with harneses for 770 to the door.

Now I just have to find a york compressor.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

I got my pirate supplier to get me a quote on R&P's and detroits. Here is what he sent.

D60
5.13 gears Genuine Gears $179 OR Precision Gears $197
Master Install Kit $117
Detroit Locker $625

14B
5.13 gears Genuine Gear $205 OR Precision Gear $225
Master Install Kit $125
Detroit Locker $449


Are these prices about right, and is the price difference in the Genuine and Precision worth it?

[agjohn02]

is that shipped with tax?

[DRAGOONRANCH]

Don't know, trying to find that out.

[Sharpe]

Lemme try and find where I bought my D60's detroit from. I got it for $500. I think the axles you are getting already have 5.13's in em but lemme double check that as well. The price for the gears and install kits look reasonable, I would shop around more for the lockers though.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

Shop around is something I can sure enough do. I just got back word that those prices are to my door step.

[AggieTJ2007]

check w/ randy's ring and pinion they always seem to have good prices and good packages

[Shaggy]

my detroit for the 60 was like 595 or that range from polly performance

[DRAGOONRANCH]

Ok, I have a few things headed to the house again, and I have updated the cost breakdown (http://tamor.org/forums/showthread.php?p=100213#post100213) again.

There shouldn't be too much left for now other than the choice of lockers and a few minor details. There will be some work involved this time, it will include pulling the doors and installing tube ones for now, a brake job, and other misc. stuff. I look forward to doing some wrenching this time, hopefully the wrenches wont freeze to my fingers this time. :D

[DRAGOONRANCH]

I have heard talk of a lunchbox locker, can anyone explain this to me. It wasn't hard to figure out the "lincoln locker" though. :flipoff2:

[CheapJeep]

A lunch box locker is a "drop in locker" meaning you pull the spider gears and install the locker in the existing carrier, where as a full locker such as the detroit replaces the whole carrier.

[sasquatch]

some lunchboxes reuse the end gears that drive the shafts, such as the lockright i just put in

[DRAGOONRANCH]

Been doing a little work on da cheby, got the PRP seats and harness's in.

a picture of the brackets
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f192/DRAGOONRANCH/Chevy/ALTO%2024%20JUNE%2006/SEATBRACKETS.jpg

new choos got on finallyhttp://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f192/DRAGOONRANCH/Chevy/ALTO%2024%20JUNE%2006/NEWCHOOS.jpg

[DRAGOONRANCH]

did try to offer up a finger in sacrafice to the wheelin gods seeing as I am still 10boltin with the fowtyfos. :eek:

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f192/DRAGOONRANCH/Chevy/ALTO%2024%20JUNE%2006/FINGER.jpg

[BMFScout]

did try to offer up a finger in sacrafice to the wheelin gods seeing as I am still 10boltin with the fowtyfos. :eek:


You might need help from Jobu to keep that combo together!! "Hats keep bat warm!" :gigem:

[Jackasic]

are you back state side or is that "over there"?

[agjohn02]

are you back state side or is that "over there"?


nah, robert and I went to iraq to wheel last weekend. it was cool.

[agjohn02]

You might need help from Jobu to keep that combo together!! "Hats keep bat warm!" :gigem:


he was hammerin' it pretty hard last weekend on the old meats and no boom. i guess jobu is a chevy guy.

[Jackasic]

nah, robert and I went to iraq to wheel last weekend. it was cool.

thanks A-hat, where is there a mention int he tread? Not ALL of us are board nerds, just you and Hippie :D

[sasquatch]

new choos got on finallyhttp://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f192/DRAGOONRANCH/Chevy/ALTO%2024%20JUNE%2006/NEWCHOOS.jpg


holy shat, whats your plan for tire clearance. seats look good. i'm bringing your ramp axle this weekend.

[AggieTJ2007]

thats sure to pick up wimmens at Shiloh, wanna see pictures

[uglyota]

without lockers or gears they might hold up.
Think uglytruck would float wearing those? :D

[AggieTJ2007]

almost, but I don't think the ugly truck could turn those

[Shaggy]

austin couldnt keep shafts in an open 44 with 37's so i say impossible to keep them in a 10 bolt with anything bigger than 35's... especially with a heavy truck

[Seth]

austin ran over gas meters....those things could kill a rockwell

[CheapJeep]

Those meats look good on there Ed. :gigem: Nice seat mounts.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

Thanks for the props guys, I have been bustin my a$$ tryin to get this thing workin, I still have yet to get to the pane conversion, the oba, or the new reciever hitches for tha winch. I have the parts, but no time, I had to get the snorkels on the atvs, and fix the drive belt on the one I burnt up last weekend. My problem is I am tryin to make sure the family can wheel with me, as they are really starting to enjoy it. I see a trip to co. some day in the future with them.

I will be makin a run to austin monday to pick up some axles, so if anybody needs me to haul somethin down, or pick it up, let me know. I will slide back to aggieland to pickup the axle that afternoon.

I did some clearin with the sawzall today, so the meats should be in pretty good shape. A plasma cutter is next on the tool list, and that will give me a good reason to get tha IR air compressor I want. :cool:

If all goes well in the mornin, we will be on the road by noon back to shiloh. Hope every body has a good 4th weekend, and if you have tests next week

















suck it up and drive on. :flipoff2:
They cant be any worse than havin to head back to the big badhdaddy. :cheers:

[AggieTJ2007]

let me know when you want to go to CO, Ide love to go

[DRAGOONRANCH]

Ok, I am debating finding a new body for the cheby and am wondering what to do about the body lift when it gets swapped out.

1. Go ahead and take it out and just chop the ever livin, ever lovin, compound, complex shiat outa the fenders (and maybe move the front axle forward 3 or 4 inches to help clear the cab floor)
2. Put it back in and just chop a litte like I have now.
3. Find a 8" or 9" lift to replace what I have now to get it about right.

I am leanin towards choppin the carp outa it, but I hate to have to do that and I am already right at the floorboard now. I really do want to get the cab back on the frame but need some light shed on the situation. I guess I could always cut out the cab floor and weld in some plate to assist with the clearance.

cuss and discuss please :D

[Reckless]

No. 1 sounds good plus you would have a better approach angle with the axle forward

[Sharpe]

Keep your current body. Swaps are a ***** and I can definately see you tubing the whole thing out later so there's no sense in finding and swapping a better body. DEFFINATELY ditch the body lift and replace your body mounts though, you have some severe frame flex cause your body mounts are prety much ****, with good ones the body will help stiffen it up a bit.

I would not lift it any more. Its already fairly tall, so I would recomend taking the body lift out and leaving the suspension lift alone for now. The problem is that if you want to run your 44's on ~5-6" of lift like you have, you will have to remove most of the front fenders, and you will still have firewall clearance issues. I have a friend who runs 44's on 4" of lift and he has no front fenders at all, moved his axle forward 2" and beat all the seams in the firewall flat and still has tire clearance problems.

You should pony up $25 and buy a membership on coloradok5.com. It kicks pirate's ass on chevy tech and the guys arent redneck duechs.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

Keep your current body. Swaps are a ***** and I can definately see you tubing the whole thing out later so there's no sense in finding and swapping a better body. DEFFINATELY ditch the body lift and replace your body mounts though, you have some severe frame flex cause your body mounts are prety much ****, with good ones the body will help stiffen it up a bit.

I would not lift it any more. Its already fairly tall, so I would recomend taking the body lift out and leaving the suspension lift alone for now. The problem is that if you want to run your 44's on ~5-6" of lift like you have, you will have to remove most of the front fenders, and you will still have firewall clearance issues. I have a friend who runs 44's on 4" of lift and he has no front fenders at all, moved his axle forward 2" and beat all the seams in the firewall flat and still has tire clearance problems.

You should pony up $25 and buy a membership on coloradok5.com. It kicks pirate's ass on chevy tech and the guys arent redneck duechs.

I think you and Rowdy are right. The body is in bad enough shape that I don't mind choppin it some more, but it also is leaning on the left side due to the brace being rusted to crap under the floorboard. I am worried that this will give me more problems in the future. As for the trouble of swappin cabs, I have that one covered. Gonna get my mechanic to do it when he gets a chance and he will install the 'pane and the axles too.

The truck is sure gonna look funny when I drop the body back down. It already looks low to me as it is. I still have a little of that ol' rednech in me though.... :flipoff2:

[agjohn02]

you should do what we were telling sharpe to do to his in the wal-mart parking lot.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

you should do what we were telling sharpe to do to his in the wal-mart parking lot.

My memory is a little fuzy, and there were alot of things we told him to do with pigpen. Plus I have about 9000 miles under my belt since then and as I pretty well drank away my last few remaining braincells in 1996, I don't remember much....

Unless she is blonde with big....what?

[agjohn02]

the cj truggy

[Sharpe]

the cj truggy
Do not speak such blasphemy!

[DRAGOONRANCH]

the cj truggy

I think I fawked my shoulder when I fell outa my chair. I completely forgot about that. I guess I could put the yota body up there. ***

[Reckless]

Ed, I can help with what ever mechanicing ya need after the end of august, cause ill be back in the wako area.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

Ed, I can help with what ever mechanicing ya need after the end of august, cause ill be back in the wako area.

Sounds good, I am gonna order the hydro-steer stuff soon so there will be a few projects left on it I am sure.

[Reckless]

Beer is a good payment, food and a place to crash is always a plus.
When are you going to be back in the states?

[DRAGOONRANCH]

Beer is a good payment, food and a place to crash is always a plus.
When are you going to be back in the states?

I won't be back till the end of november. I plan on makin sure I have plenty of wrench time before clayton. I may have to freeze my cahones off that time of year, but what the hell. The truck is about to head to the shop to get the 60/70 put in, the "Hank Hill approved" conversion, and maybe the newish cab and body. It will still need the hydro and oba. Unless you want to tackle the pane conversion your self. :D

[Reckless]

I can do the pane converion, cant be that bad. And help whoever needs it for ya to get ready by clayton time. I have no rig of my own

[DRAGOONRANCH]

I am getting ready to order the transfer case next week and wanted to know what yall thought about cv flanges versus 1310/1350 u-joints.

[AggieTJ2007]

I would go w/ a 1350 CV

[DRAGOONRANCH]

I ordered the atlas a week or so ago, and got some bad news yesterday. Atlas goofed on the price, but said they would ship it in a week or so as someone backed out on their order. So hopefully it will be in soon and White's can get it in and get the d-shafts made when he gets the 60/70 under it. This will be a big relief to get this stuff done so soon.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

I updated the cost tracker (http://tamor.org/forums/showthread.php?p=100213#post100213) again, I think I am just about finished with the major cost items other than the hydro steering. I am gonna have a shiite load of work when I get home.

[AggieTJ2007]

wow, looks like its comming along pretty good,

have you seen the new 54" boggers?

[DRAGOONRANCH]

Thanks, I just have to get it all put together now.

No, I haven't seen the fittyfows. I would think that would take rocks to run those, I just dont see how a 60 could stand up to em for long. Maybe on another build way down the road....

[DRAGOONRANCH]

Well, this finaly made it on the trailer with the truck and got dropped off yesterday at the mechanic.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f192/DRAGOONRANCH/Chevy/ATLASIV1.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f192/DRAGOONRANCH/Chevy/ATLASIV2.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f192/DRAGOONRANCH/Chevy/ATLASIV3.jpg

Now he can get the axles under it, mount the transfer case, and get the d-shafts built

[DRAGOONRANCH]

OH, btw, thats g-ma in her mowin shorts

[eight]

You gonna wheel this or the jeep in clayton? Who's doing the work?

[DRAGOONRANCH]

Both, my brother should be makin the trip with me, and if he cant make it I will just let somebody drive one. I would like to get a little seat time in both while home.

Quentin White, he's in Barclay Tx. He does all our familys mechanic work now. Real good, thorough, and will give you a break if you can drop somethin off and let him get to it when he has time. Will tell you real quick if he doesn't know about something, he doesn't like to just change parts till the problem is fixed.

[JeepPhisherman]

Both, my brother should be makin the trip with me, and if he cant make it I will just let somebody drive one. I would like to get a little seat time in both while home.



Dibs!

What's the to-completion-date looking like?

[DRAGOONRANCH]

I don't know yet, I have to get intouch with him. He has had the axles for over a month now, and if he has them finished then it wont be long I am sure. Hopefully by the 1st of December (this is when I get in from the sandbox). I may try to slip into 47 when I get home to get a feel for both vehicles before clayton. Hopefully it all gets done, but we will see.

[Reckless]

Im his lil buddy and i have no rig so HA!!!!!

[DRAGOONRANCH]

Yeah, Rowdy did call dibs a while back, just not for sure where. ***

He's like my gilligan, now I just need to find us a Ginger and Mary Anne!

[agjohn02]

nice, 4 speed?

[DRAGOONRANCH]

yeppers, with the 10.3 low, with this and the pane, should take some of the "pull the seat outa your a$$ with a pair of pliers after skinny pedaling up hills at alto while night wheelin" feelin. :gigem:

[agjohn02]

yeppers, with the 10.3 low, with this and the pane, should take some of the "pull the seat outa your a$$ with a pair of pliers after skinny pedaling up hills at alto while night wheelin" feelin. :gigem:


funny, i had the same feeling and i was standing uphill from you. :gigem:

[DRAGOONRANCH]

yeah, but atleast you weren't downhill like sharpe was. Did I mention it needed a brake job pretty bad? ;)

[Sharpe]

I was prepared to make evasive maneuvers.

[agjohn02]

exactly, had i been downhill, the "pull the seat outa your a$$ with a pair of pliers" feeling would be understandable for that very sort of reason.:flipoff2:

[agjohn02]

I was prepared to make evasive maneuvers.


dont kid yourself, evasive maneuver and pigpen dont even belong in the same sentence. :flipoff2:

[DRAGOONRANCH]

maybe if you were talkin aircraft carrier manuvers:flipoff:

We all learned stuff that night.

Pigpen needs more HP
da beast needs pane
LT1 scouts driver needs not be a puss and get some scratches in the paint already:flipoff3:

[agjohn02]

your carb didnt balk did it? i thought it did pretty well. the electric fan on the other hand...

[DRAGOONRANCH]

every time it got a little steep it starts to cut out causing me to have to give it more skinny pedal than what is needed. it does fine with some rpm's, but blows at or around idle

[AggieTJ2007]

Hey it looks like the beast will getting a cage pretty soon too.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

;)

[TexTJ209]

dont kid yourself, evasive maneuver and pigpen dont even belong in the same sentence. :flipoff2:


Like the time you "evasively manuevered" around that tree at Katemcy right Sharpe?

[Sharpe]

Like the time you "evasively manuevered" around that tree at Katemcy right Sharpe?
:flipoff2: :laughing:
***** I was going too fast around a turn and couldnt steer far enough over.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

Well, I decided the other day to stick with the 4.56's in the 60/70. I went back and did a bunch of the math again and cant see where anything lower than that would benefit me with the low/low option. I am told the axles should be set up and ready in the next week. Then its just slap em in, get the steering hooked up, and mount the tc so the measurements for the driveshafts can be made.

I am now in the hunt for a hydro clutch for it. I have access to a bell housing out of a 94 I believe he said, and it is supposed to fit the 465. What is the best route to go on this? I wouldnt think a slave from the parts house would be too much, and the linkage couldnt be too hard to manufacture. It has to beat the existing setup.

[Doug Krebs]

I made my own mount to hold the slave cylinder because I couldn't find a hydro bell housing. It's still on the blazer and has never given me any troubles. For the pedals it's best to find a hydro pedal set, but you can modify your existing set.

I have a hydro bell housing and a pedal set that will eventually be used for the buggy, but if you need to take some measurements you're welcome too.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

When I get back to town, I will sure come by and do that. Does that take a different clutch fork or anything?

[Doug Krebs]

When I get back to town, I will sure come by and do that. Does that take a different clutch fork or anything?

Which one? I'm pretty sure I used the linkage clutch fork on the slave mount I made.

I'm sure the hydro one is probably different.

[Sharpe]

Ed I dont think that bellhousing will work because in 94 they were using NV4500's and they have different bellhousings than SM465's.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

I will have to do some more checkin on all of this. I do not know what for sure the mechanic has, so this may have to wait till i get home and can dive into it then.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

I know that this subject has already been covered in this thread also, but I am gettin lazy tonite and dont want to look it up. I will check it out after I get back from the gym. I don't think this is going to be too hard once I get all the parts together to do it.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

Novak has this adapter (http://www.novak-adapt.com/catalog/kit_hcr3.htm). This is close to what is needed correct? I know the master would have to be installed along with the hose and conections from the pedal to the master.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

Anyone have a preference on clutch suppliers other than the junkyards....

[sasquatch]

i've heard that centerforce and luk are good. next clutch i buy will probably be a centerforce.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

ok, sounds good, I kept thinking of the purple trq conv and it was throwin me off.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

If you have an 11" clutch, can you fit a 12" on the same flywheel???

[mudtoy67]

i've heard that centerforce and luk are good. next clutch i buy will probably be a centerforce.

Luk makes the standard centerforce clutches from what I understand. If you look at a centerforce it says Luk on it.

[TxCruzr]

Learn to drive a stick and use a walmart special :flipoff2:

[DRAGOONRANCH]

Learn to drive a stick and use a walmart special :flipoff2:

wally world no sellum clutches :gigem:

[eight]

Just get one from napa or whereever. Its not like you're running 800 hp or anything. With clutches, its either good enough or not, or you put in too strong of an aftermarket one and it grabs too easy and you stall all the time. If the factory clutch holds, an aftermarket one will gain you nothing.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

Well, the way I understand it, the 12" was an upgrade or HD version offered in the 70's and 80's. I was just wondering if it would fit on the same flywheel as the 11 as I am almost positive that is what is in there.

You are right though, I don't need a clutch that is designed for high HP, but having one that is built with better material than the off the shelf napa special might be good while I have it apart.

[JeepPhisherman]

Some clutches last longer than others. Stock is usually good unless the stock clutch blew.
I'm going to replace mine in the spring with a stock trd clutch, they usually work well for ~100K, heard of some centerforces only lasting ~40K on the taco boards. I'd like to try out a ceramic clutch, but don't have the skrilla.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

we have a od green blazer running around here that one of the other civilian companys uses to haul their gear around in (they work on the electronics in the HMMWV's and such), and I was wondering if the blazer frame was the same as the shortbed truck... if so, i could use it as a handy tool to go and take measurements off of,



u think they would let me shackle flip it and soa with some rocks and 53's??????

[Doug Krebs]

we have a od green blazer running around here that one of the other civilian companys uses to haul their gear around in (they work on the electronics in the HMMWV's and such), and I was wondering if the blazer frame was the same as the shortbed truck... if so, i could use it as a handy tool to go and take measurements off of,



u think they would let me shackle flip it and soa with some rocks and 53's??????

The frame is the same from the doors up to the front clip. Behind that they are different. The frame maybe the same in the back, just shorter, but i have never compared.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

Thanks Doug, now I can go check it out to see what I will need to do spring and hanger wise, instead of just lookin at pics on the web. I slipped up on it today with a tape measure and it has a 108" wheel base on it, so thats about 10" shorter than the beast. It has the 48" springs up front and they have no offset front or back on them. I didn't check the rear, will get to that tomorrow. This gives me a chance to look at what space and clearances I might have on mine, don't know why I didnt think of this sooner. We have a cucv truck here too. Might go check it out later also.

[Sharpe]

CUCV's give me wood. The rear springs in the blazer should be 52"er's, but they might be 56's.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

what size lugnuts are on the 60/70s, are they all 9/16" or do they come in a variety of sizes

[fbronco86]

what size lugnuts are on the 60/70s, are they all 9/16" or do they come in a variety of sizes

I have a old dana 60 with 1/2-20 lug nuts