Pure IH Performance

[BMFScout]

Ever since I got my scout there has been talk of aluminum intakes for Scout motors. Well, it happened.

http://www.ihonly.com/

The stock manifold is heavy, ask Fred he carried one out of the yard one time b/c he didn't want to jack w/ a wheelbarrow. So it probably saves 40 lbs or so. I would be interested in the multiport set-up if I ran out of things to spend money on.

[Fredo]

hell hath frozenth over

[Jackasic]

about dang time.

[agjohn02]

wow, they finally did it. cool. a 345 with fuel rails would look killa.

[AgDieseler]

Who wants a moustache ride?
http://www.ihonly.com/Ak%20%20with%20Manifold%201.JPG

[BMFScout]

I vunt one, I vunt one!

[Fredo]

I can't remember where those guys are actually from, but they are funny to talk to on the phone. I ordered a tranny mount from them a while back and it was like I was trying to get missle codes from a russian.

[agjohn02]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/INTERNATIONAL-HARVESTER-SCOUT-ALUMINUM-INTAKE-345-392_W0QQitemZ8055138492QQcategoryZ36474QQrdZ1QQcmd ZViewItem

[Fredo]

one of the guys in North Texas Binders just shelled out $500 for one of those.....I couldn't imagine dumping that much money on an intake that a carb still bolts to.

[Sharpe]

So school me on international engines. Did they ever use AMC motors? I have heard all IH motors are prety much turds power wise, is this true? The reason I ask is my next project is going to be the 63 IH truck I have and I havent looked too closely but I believe it has a V8. I was thinking I'd like to do a street rod theme with it, and was considering swapping a cadillac 500 in, just cause I can.

[agjohn02]

is that the harvester or the truck?

IH never made a hotrod engine. just dumptruck motors. put a 500 in it.

[Sharpe]

is that the harvester or the truck?

I am going to kick you in the balls. I knew someone would bring that up...

[Jackasic]

i'd only buy one so I could go GM LT1 fuel injection. Mill out the carb crab and weld in some injector bungs and you would good to go.

[eight]

IH used the amc 258 in some scouts, and the 401 in some big trucks, I beleive that's where flem's came from. The 304 in IHs are an IH motor, not the amc 304.

If they came out with some aftermarket heads you could probably make decent power from an IH.

[Fredo]

i'd only buy one so I could go GM LT1 fuel injection. Mill out the carb crab and weld in some injector bungs and you would good to go.

Do you even think before you type anymore?

[TxCruzr]

I never have never thought IH and Performance would be lumped in the same sentence :eek:
:flipoff2:

[Fredo]

If they came out with some aftermarket heads you could probably make decent power from an IH.

I found this....and yes, these are Rear Wheel numbers....through a 727, a Dana 20, and a 44 rear. That's probably good for somewhere about 20-25% parasitic loss. The numbers aren't too bad for a modified stock head piece of farm equipments.


Finally got the new motor/tranny mounts worked out on one of my project Scout IIs and I took it on down the road for some dyno tuning on the current setup.

Current setup starts with a 392, bored out .060 over. Add to that a set of ported, polished and decked 392 heads. The cam is a custom grind. Pistons are Ross Racing forged pistons. Crank has been knife edged. Dry sump oil system. Speed Demon 750 carb. Headers are custom 2" primaries - 37" long. Headers feed 2.75" dual exhaust (x-pipe configuration). Mallory distributor. MSD 6AL spark controller. Everything balanced.

Anywho - I had forgotten to fill up the fuel cell before I left so the runs were done on 93 octane pump gas. Peak horsepower was right at 405 and torque stayed a respectable 463 ft/lbs. Will have to go over the rest of the numbers from todays runs and take a look at changes to the intake and exhaust as well as possible work on the heads to get them flowing a bit better.

BTW - the weight is so low because I still have no body on the Scout - just the frame and cage, firewall and floor to bolt my seat to.

[Jackasic]

Do you even think before you type anymore?


what does that mean ass hat?

I meant what I stated, based on the tunability i have seen with Jordons use of LT1-edit and the mods available, I think it would be a much better way to go than the TBI crap. It would also be quite a bit cheaper than Edelbrock or some sort of stand alone. Basically mill out the center and make an adapter for a TB and such.

I can get you some pics Fred if you can't envision it :flipoff2:

[Fredo]

no, actually, I was stating the fact that you're a ****ing idiot if you think you can adapt an LT1 computer onto an IH motor with ease. The LT1 uses a 8 notch timing disc and a 360 degree timing disc to refrence crankshaft position. This unit is otherwise known as the opti-spark and is not easily adaptable. I think a Vortec computer would be a much easier computer to use if you wanted to put MPI on something. As far as adapting a throttle body onto a carb manifold, it is done everyday using square bore carb manifolds and throttle bodies that bolt on using the carb pattern, no machining required. So yeah, I asked if you even read what you type anymore, or just spew off a series of words you've overheard or seen in hotrod while looking at the pretty pictures.

[agjohn02]

what does that mean ass hat?

I meant what I stated, based on the tunability i have seen with Jordons use of LT1-edit and the mods available, I think it would be a much better way to go than the TBI crap. It would also be quite a bit cheaper than Edelbrock or some sort of stand alone. Basically mill out the center and make an adapter for a TB and such.

I can get you some pics Fred if you can't envision it :flipoff2:


why mill it out. just make an adapter or use a tb like he has on that engine on the stand. then you gotta put in a cam sensor that gives a signal like optispark, map, maf, tp,... itd be way too much work for a 345.

edit: fred beat me to it. oh yeah, and he's an @$$ :flipoff2:

[jerryg79]

no, actually, I was stating the fact that you're a ****ing idiot if you think you can adapt an LT1 computer onto an IH motor with ease. The LT1 uses a 8 notch timing disc and a 360 degree timing disc to refrence crankshaft position. This unit is otherwise known as the opti-spark and is not easily adaptable. I think a Vortec computer would be a much easier computer to use if you wanted to put MPI on something. As far as adapting a throttle body onto a carb manifold, it is done everyday using square bore carb manifolds and throttle bodies that bolt on using the carb pattern, no machining required. So yeah, I asked if you even read what you type anymore, or just spew off a series of words you've overheard or seen in hotrod while looking at the pretty pictures.

OWNED!

[agjohn02]

yes, tpi or vortec contol with bank fire would be much easier

[BMFScout]

I just look at the pretty pictures, Hot-Rod kicks ass!

[RCcola55]

So school me on international engines. Did they ever use AMC motors? I have heard all IH motors are prety much turds power wise, is this true? The reason I ask is my next project is going to be the 63 IH truck I have and I havent looked too closely but I believe it has a V8. I was thinking I'd like to do a street rod theme with it, and was considering swapping a cadillac 500 in, just cause I can.

There is a caddy with a 500 in my driveway, ill pay you to take it off my hands as long as the owner doesnt find out (my roommate)

[Sharpe]

There is a caddy with a 500 in my driveway, ill pay you to take it off my hands as long as the owner doesnt find out (my roommate)
That can be arranged :gigem: It can disappear into the blackhole of south texas with all the rest of the junk cars in the country. :gigem:

[Jackasic]

who reads hot rod? thats for queer Jeep parts guys to beat off to :D

point is oh angry one, i would like investigate other efi options, other tha tbi and and AL would make that easier. It seems that cam timing is the only large hang up for using lt1 efi, but a machiest friend of mine said he could build me a solution if it came to that.. I have also looked into Hal-tech and Fast for efi option.

anything that is added on is going to take addaption, for the sensors to gain info. just depends which way you want go. :beer:

[Fredo]

hey brandon, why don't take a crack at building an EFI system first, then decide what is easy and what will work instead of coaching from the peanut gallery.

[jerryg79]

who reads hot rod? thats for queer Jeep parts guys to beat off to :D

point is oh angry one, i would like investigate other efi options, other tha tbi and and AL would make that easier. It seems that cam timing is the only large hang up for using lt1 efi, but a machiest friend of mine said he could build me a solution if it came to that.. I have also looked into Hal-tech and Fast for efi option.

anything that is added on is going to take addaption, for the sensors to gain info. just depends which way you want go. :beer:


Please dont anger the chevy gods, i may need to call upon them again some day

[Reckless]

There is a caddy with a 500 in my driveway, ill pay you to take it off my hands as long as the owner doesnt find out (my roommate)

Bring extra lug nuts and a tire. :gigem: :flipoff2:

[eight]

Go with batch fire mpfi controlled by megasquirt. It can also easily be programmed as a fuel adder and ignition retarder for those serious about power.

[robertf03]

Go with batch fire mpfi controlled by megasquirt. It can also easily be programmed as a fuel adder and ignition retarder for those serious about power.


ghettosquirt

turns out junkyard ecms do everything they do and more.
200 bones and you can real time tune them.


why would you mill out the intake for the lt1 throttle body?

I'd go with the only dry runner throttle body fully endorsed by FlemCo:

1000 cfm's of pleasure


http://force-efi.com/pictures/tb10w.jpg

[agjohn02]

hey brandon, why don't take a crack at building an EFI system first, then decide what is easy and what will work instead of coaching from the peanut gallery.


:rolleyes:

tbi on a scout is hardly building a efi system

he never said he knew anything, just made a somewhat dumb statement and you brought down the wrath of the parts counter monkey on him. chill out!


brace yourselves.... here comes the attack of the asterisks :(

[Fredo]

thanks john....why don't you just go buy a truck out from under me while your at it.

[JB]

haha, i assume your joking, that thing was up for sale to everyone.

[eight]

If john didn't buy it mario was right behind him. You can come get it out from in front of my house if you'd like. I could probably tell you where to look for the keys and title. Bring a d300 and we'll trade.

[agjohn02]

dont forget the starter on the porch. the new contact for it is in my pocket though.

[agjohn02]

If john didn't buy it mario was right behind him.

yes, had i waited another 30 mins mario would own the shiny red toyota

[Jackasic]

I looked at mega squirt when I was considering turboing my GLi. seems like a pretty cool and way cheap system. Lot of VW guys are using that to run ITBs. I do dig that TB thought Flem, that is a slick set up, may have to consider that. I wasn't looking to do a LT1 TB as much at the the sensors. TB seem to come in a zillion aps and configuration.

I would like to find some that is all GM parts, so when something craps out of the trail (and I am sure it will) I can just go down to NAPA and buy what I need. I have seen Mark have some issue with proprietary parts crapping out.

As for our Beloved Fredo, well you lovely attitude has earned your self one less friend.

[agjohn02]

I'd go with the only dry runner throttle body fully endorsed by FlemCo:

1000 cfm's of pleasure


http://force-efi.com/pictures/tb10w.jpg


IAC on a 1000cfm TB, thats interesting

[Fredo]

As for our Beloved Fredo, well you lovely attitude has earned your self one less friend.

we were friends? :flipoff2:

[Jackasic]

guess not

[Fredo]

give me a break brandon....it's a f'n message board.

[tigweld]

IAC on a 1000cfm TB, thats interesting

why? the motor still needs to get air when the throtle blades are closed. do u understand what the iac actually does, seems to me it is required for the tb to work.

[agjohn02]

yeah, i know exactly what its for. its just funny because low speed idle quality is the least of your worries when you need 1000cfm. just use a screw to crack the butterflies. ive done it both ways on race efi and both work just fine. doing it manually it just lighter, cheaper, and easier.

[robertf03]

yeah, i know exactly what its for. its just funny because low speed idle quality is the least of your worries when you need 1000cfm. just use a screw to crack the butterflies. ive done it both ways on race efi and both work just fine. doing it manually it just lighter, cheaper, and easier.


mechanical secondaries. won't be too hard to get decent idle and big power

[eight]

That's why I like to unplug the IAC and use the screw to set the idle, stays more constant that way too. Once I get rid of the gm ignition it should run pretty good.

[agjohn02]

That's why I like to unplug the IAC and use the screw to set the idle, stays more constant that way too. Once I get rid of the gm ignition it should run pretty good.


no, you just like to unplug yours because it doesnt work correctly

[eight]

yea or somethin like that

[Jackasic]

I did the same thing on my VW when I installed a big cam. The ISV couldn't compensate, so I just upped the idle a little. Sucked for cold start though, only ideled when warm.

[tigweld]

yeah, i know exactly what its for. its just funny because low speed idle quality is the least of your worries when you need 1000cfm. just use a screw to crack the butterflies. ive done it both ways on race efi and both work just fine. doing it manually it just lighter, cheaper, and easier.

1000cfm is really not all that much for a multiport setup, there are plenty of 350hp street cars runing 1000cfm tb's. I dont thing the cfm really has all that much to do with idle quality on efi, and it seems to me efi really can use that much cfm and not give up much low-end. i have a friend with bds birdcatcher (3500cfm?) on an 8-71, and after craig railsback helped with the tunin' it idled amazingly better than it did with only 1500cfm of carb. truthfully how many race efi(low impedence) set-up's have u ever been around, the issue is 60lb+ injectors fawkin the idle not the cfm. I think my idea of a race motor and yours are 2 different things.

[agjohn02]

truthfully how many race efi(low impedence) set-up's have u ever been around, the issue is 60lb+ injectors fawkin the idle not the cfm. I think my idea of a race motor and yours are 2 different things.

thats true. i have no experience with big race motors. displacement and idle speed are related. the experience i speak from is two totally custom systems, one using motec and the other using a custom controller built by A&M students. they were both on a 600cc yamaha, but either one was no less trick than any system out there. one had iac and the other didnt. one used hall effect sensors the other used mag sensors. the one without iac performed better. we were using high impedence injectors, but relatively speaking, four 28.6 lb/hr injectors on a engine that size is equivalent to low impedence on a big motor. getting a good idle that wasnt through the roof was an issue.

im not saying it shouldnt have iac. if i paid for that thing id expect it to have iac. when deleting iac cuts the weight of your throttle body to about 40% and you can make it idle, its a more than fair tradeoff. that weight on a 500lb car is much more important than it is on a 3500lb car.

i can guarantee you a 350 hp motor isnt pulling 1000 cfm through a throttle body, but with mpi you can tune to make it run fine. can you even get a dry tb with less capacity?

[robertf03]

how do you figure that it was equivalent to low impedance injector on a bigger displacement engine?

[agjohn02]

big injectors relative to the engine's requirement at idle

[robertf03]

low z injectors open and close faster, I think you have your terminology backwards.

[agjohn02]

true, i didnt think about that, i was thinking soley in terms of flow capacity, not triggering time. guess you could say im thinking about big (55 lb/hr) high z injectors, which is similar to the situation we were in. there was no option for low impedence injectors in the size we were using. maybe that would have solved some of our idle issues. the stock ls1 injectors were really too big for what we were doing. iirc the way we got around it was to actually measure the output of the injectors and compensate in the tuning. ive never messed with a system needing that big of injectors. is that the only reason anything above 55-60 lb/hr has to be low z, idle quality?

[agjohn02]

funny how a thread about IH turned into custom efi talk.

thanks a lot brandon. you're so stupid.

[Jackasic]

i do what I can ;)

[agjohn02]

psst, jimmy...

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=252685&d=1152020791

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=252686&d=1152020791

[jerryg79]

jimmy does love him some red x's :flipoff2:

[DRAGOONRANCH]

psst, jimmy...

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=252685&d=1152020791

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=252686&d=1152020791

I had to quote him and then copy and paste the link, now they work just fine :confused2

[agjohn02]

jimmy does love him some red x's :flipoff2:


hmm, interesting