Krew Kab Klogger

[J Cooper]

*** sorry had to

i could not find a good ttb pic

but i did find this kick ass jeep axle!!!! :gigem: :rolleyes:


and i found a photo of your great grand father with the original klogger :flipoff2:

[stx4wheeler]

And finally, Karl's House of Tires! You want 14's, 15's, 16's 16.5's, we got em. You want 5 lug on 4.75, 5 on 5, 5 on 5.5, 8 lug, we got em!

Remember our motto "The only person with more used tires in Crosby is Frick!"

Karl you are in-correct you now have more tires than me. All if have left is the 35's i bought from you, 1 bogger spare, and 1 31 spare. I started to sell my tire collection when they got wet and started to breed in my back barn.

[eight]

Frick, I have some 33s in my backyard you can have to enhance your collection.

[uglyota]

Are those MTRs for 16s? I might could be interested in taking those off your hands

[jerryg79]

Are those MTRs for 16s? I might could be interested in taking those off your hands

fiteens nugga!

[uglyota]

I guess that's cool, as long as he keeps em clean

[Eckert]

fiteens nugga!

then whats the deal on them? 37's correct?

[sasquatch]

Frick, I have some 33s in my backyard you can have to enhance your collection.

rim size?

[KrazyKarl02]

then whats the deal on them? 37's correct?

Got to swap the front axle first.

[TMatheaus]

rim size?

16.5

[davido]

that's awesome karl. hell of a deal!

[eight]

Yes, 16.5". I also have sets of 35s, 36s, and 38s for the same size rims though not in my backyard.

[Reckless]

Are those MTRs for 16s? I might could be interested in taking those off your hands

check the sidewalls first:flipoff2::gigem:

[ol burj]

if i swap in a dana 60 from an f350 in my bronco, whats the smallest wheel i can run cause ill need 5 of that size in an 8 lug plz!

[DRAGOONRANCH]

You may be able to fit a 15" w/ some grinding on the calipers.

[stx4wheeler]

15 inch wheels will work on a ford 60 if you get 2.75 back spacing,with little to no grinding. You can run 3 but you will have to do some grinding.

[KrazyKarl02]

Knoeller made a 1986 bronco with a D60 and ran 15" wheels, the thread is here (http://tamor.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1220), but all the pictures are gone. About a year ago we parted the truck, I have his 60 and his wheels. From what I gather it took a lot of grinding to get 15's to work. I would suggest 16's or larger.

[robertf03]

16s might cost more but I think they stay on the bead better than 15s, and way better than 16.5s.

that said, if I could swing 15" wheels for the rover I'd go that route. wheels almost pay for themselves with the price difference.

[CheapJeep]

Before going out and dropping the coin on a set of rims I would first consider your long term plans for the build, especially what tires you want to eventually run. Like everyone has stated, 15's and a 60 require caliper grinding which I would avoid. I chose to run 16's because I already had tires but in hindsight I wish I would have sold the tires and bought 17's. That would have given me more choices as far as tires go such as the BFG KM2's, Krawler's, etc...

[85cj7]

I've got 15's on my 609 with no grinding.

[bcolman]

I've got 15's on my 609 with no grinding.

rear 60's use different setups compared to front 60's

[colman]

also on that rear 60 you have 3/4 ton brakes,

the front 60 can be converted to 3/4 ton (dana 44) calipers with custom brackets from blackbird customs

[85cj7]

don't all aftermarket rear disk 60 setups use 44 calipers/rotors?

[Eckert]

don't all aftermarket rear disk 60 setups use 44 calipers/rotors?

then how was your comment relevant?

just bragging:flipoff2:

[85cj7]

hes installing a rear d-60 is his bronco, I'm saying that if he runs aftermarket brakes instead of the giant drums then they will require d-44 rotors and calipers, meaning he can run 15's with no grinding.

[eight]

Yea, they use the 44 stuff. I think 15s fit with the drums, and d60 drums aren't so huge like a 14 bolt.

Just get a set of 16.5" wheels like I have, or hummer wheels, recentered if you like. You have the full range of TSLs to choose from, and no reason to buy anything else. If you are not manly enough for TSLs, don't worry, that's what IROKs are for.

[AggieTJ2007]

yeah 15s are easy to run on almost any axle but when you step up to larger tires you get alot of sidewall flex and esp the tires try to roll over on themselves at low pressures when trying to turn.

i would go w/ 17s from the get go if I had the choice. that is what my next set of wheels will be

[Seth]

so how long until folks are saying "i have 17s, but if I could do it over I would just go ahead and run 20s"

PS - Kopecki speaks the truth.

[JB]

http://houston.craigslist.org/pts/1430955352.html

[KrazyKarl02]

Thanks for the info, but I have about 3 TTB's sitting behind my house...

[KrazyKarl02]

So after blowing a rear yoke in Alto, I decided something needs to change with the rear suspension. The 6" blocks are obviously causing a lot of axle wrap, so those need to go. I decide on a shackle flip using F-250 front spring hangers. This is a pretty well documented swap, but here are some pictures...

First step, remove the old hangers...

[KrazyKarl02]

Here you can see how much beefier the F-250 hangers are compared to the stock F-150/Bronco hangers. They are thicker and hang lower.

[KrazyKarl02]

Doing a shackle flip like this will move the axle about 1.5" forward. I made some "zero rate" springs/shims like Off Road Design has. I made them out of 3/4" plate and incorporated the spring pin into them. They move the axle back 1".

[KrazyKarl02]

I put the hangers on, welded them and bolted them up, for extra strength. When I lowered the truck the shackle was not at the correct angle, so I unbolted and cut the damn things back off. I had to move them, but got it right. I also added a piece of angle just to beef them up even more.

[KrazyKarl02]

I am also building a new driveshaft as I have thrown that rear one out like 3 times, and it is pretty used.

Should be ready for the Creek this weekend. Before Clayton I am going to add an antri-wrap bar and hopefully some tube!

[uglyota]

waaaaaaiiiitttt....spring creek is this weekend? Hmmmm....

[KrazyKarl02]

List of things to do for Clayton (in order of importance):

*Pack cooler
*Replace Power Steering Pump and hoses (pull and warranty the pump at O'reilly's)
*Make new rear driveshaft (have all the parts, just need to do it)
*Fab and install an anti-wrap bar for the rear axle (Have all the parts just need to do it)
*Mount and wire 8274 on front
*Tube work, simple roll bars for now
*Begin the body clearancing
*Make sure cooler has enough ice...

[KrazyKarl02]

Pulled the power steering pump off, it was fooked! Also managed to break the pulley in the process...

Went to Ho'Reilly's, the pump is under warranty, I got new hoses, a belt, and pulley.

Also figured out the zero oil pressure issue, the sender became un-plugged, cleaned the connections and now we have pressure :gigem:

[KrazyKarl02]

A while ago I had Jimmy pick me up a pro tools bender in Dallas. I ordered the copperhead fab kit and Jones and I put it together.

[KrazyKarl02]

Yesterday Jones and I started building a Klogger Kage. Knoeller stopped by to assist. Here are some pics. We got the rear "C" tube done. We also got the "B" hoop done. All of the hoops go through the body and tie directly to the frame.

[KrazyKarl02]

The front, I bent 2 pieces that run from front to back, rather than the traditional hoop. I will put a top bar and dash bar in between them. I don't think this makes a difference in the strength. I could have kicked the bottom of this forward more, but then when I turned it into the frame it would have been right at the radius arm mount, and it does not interfere with the foot room too much. Obviously I still need to notch this and fit it up.

[KrazyKarl02]

And for all of you jack asses out there, I am going to add more gussets and triangulation :flipoff2:

[colman]

thanks for ruining our fun

[BMFScout]

looks good Karl!

[CheapJeep]

Nice!

[robertf03]

maybe you can get some ideas from this cage

http://fusionmoto.blogspot.com/2009/11/new-roll-cage-headliner-for-super-rover.html

[KrazyKarl02]

Got it welded out and the connectors through the back half of the cage. I am going to put some pipe foam on it temporary for Clayton. I still need to gusset and put a few cross bars (like the one in the front)

[davido]

Xtreme!

:)

[KrazyKarl02]

Xtreme!

:)

Yeah, I wore my hat backwards while I did it!

[KrazyKarl02]

So Spring Creek + loose wheel bearings = bad spindle

[KrazyKarl02]

The hub and everything was packed with a mud grease combo, it is awesome! Luckily Kevin had an extra spindle, so some new bearings, a little cleaning and it will be good to go.

[KrazyKarl02]

GOODBYE ENGINE STUTTER!

hopefully.....

[TdmayfieldIV]

Thank god, maybe now the klogger won't be a boat anchor everyone has to drag around every trail.:flipoff2:

[bcolman]

so what does that make the sloth?:flipoff2:

[colman]

special in a short bus kinda way

[DRAGOONRANCH]

Thank god, maybe now the klogger won't be a boat anchor everyone has to drag around every trail.:flipoff2:

Read the title of this thread. He will be doing the same thing, just be able to make more noise and sound cooler doing it. :gigem:

You going for Kolosal Kubes Karl, or staying with Kiddie Kubes w/ some Krosby Kustomization?

[TdmayfieldIV]

so what does that make the sloth?:flipoff2:

A boat anchor that i don't bring to the trails:gigem:

[KrazyKarl02]

Read the title of this thread. He will be doing the same thing, just be able to make more noise and sound cooler doing it. :gigem:

You going for Kolosal Kubes Karl, or staying with Kiddie Kubes w/ some Krosby Kustomization?

49 more cubic inches, 80 more foot lbs of torque, double the first gear, plus an extra pedal in the floor board....

[KrazyKarl02]

Thank god, maybe now the klogger won't be a boat anchor everyone has to drag around every trail.:flipoff2:

On the one trip you went on when the klogger was there, the klogger had to be pulled out of one trail and that was more due to running out of gas.

PS, my wheel has never fallen off.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

plus an extra pedal in the floor board....

this won't cut into the chilled refreshment partaking will it (it is an acquired skill that I have no doubt in your ability to master. :D )

[AggieTJ2007]

you seem to have figured it out so it can't be too hard :flipoff2:

[DRAGOONRANCH]

Hey, I resemble that remark!

[DRAGOONRANCH]

(that's why you were talking about the governor the other day! I get it now. :laughing: )

[KrazyKarl02]

So, Dana 60, I want to do coil springs. I am thinking of a "radius like" arm on each side. The arm would have a bend to allow for tire clearance. The arm would be mounted to the frame side by like a 1" heim and mounted to the axle by 2 bushings on each side (similar to a track bar). Then a track bar to hold it left to right. Very similar to 78/79 Ford Broncos, but with heims. I was going to make the arms out of 1-3/4 - .250 wall. I made this KAD drawing to illustrate the idea. Thoughts? Why won't it work or what would work better?

[Eckert]

everything ive seen aftermarket has the upper arm roughly half way down the lower, not full length like you have posted. i dont know the theory behind that though.

are you using a later model 60? would it be easier to try to make a 3link + panhard front instead of trying to make 2 bushing fit on the driver side?

[AggieTJ2007]

i second the 3 link with a panhard/trackbar

super simple to build and seems to work very well

[eight]

Appears you are recreating my suspension.

What you are creating is basically a swingarm. As you know, swingarms don't flex. You must use some soft bushings to allow for it. I would stay away from poly for these.

On mine I had to go with the top link roughly half way down the lower for clearance with the frame.

Good idea on the bend in them, I think you will need it since your frame is wider than mine. Mine rub just a bit, but it's at about the same point the u-joints would start to bind.

Leaf springs are for suckers.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

With the bind that setup will see and the weight it's going to have to hold up, the bushings are going to catch pure D Hell like kolpecker said. I think the 3link will serve you better.

[Cajun]

So, Dana 60, I want to do coil springs. I am thinking of a "radius like" arm on each side. The arm would have a bend to allow for tire clearance. The arm would be mounted to the frame side by like a 1" heim and mounted to the axle by 2 bushings on each side (similar to a track bar). Then a track bar to hold it left to right. Very similar to 78/79 Ford Broncos, but with heims. I was going to make the arms out of 1-3/4 - .250 wall. I made this KAD drawing to illustrate the idea. Thoughts? Why won't it work or what would work better?

Do this, but only use one attachment point on the axle on one side, making it behave like a "wristed" radius arm. I did this on the Scout and really liked it.

Bending the arms as you have illustrated is a good idea, I had significant tire rubbing.

[stx4wheeler]

Klogger replacement!!

http://houston.craigslist.org/cto/1738773285.html

[RCcola55]

im wet

[DRAGOONRANCH]

You piss your pants again???

[KrazyKarl02]

Thats a pretty good deal, fuel injected 460, Dana 60 w/ locker all for 3k. Of course you have to wonder why the tranny and t-case are not in it....

[KrazyKarl02]

It's time to have the WTF am I doing conversation, so let's have it. Please read below and comment. I am not looking to get into a Ford vs Chevy drivetrain debate, just trying to figure out my next steps and think some stuff through. When I built the Klogger I made a booze cruising, very low budget, people transportation device. I would not call it an off road rig. For the past 5 years I have wheeled it with only about $1000 in it (truck was free, cab wad free, lift was $150, FI engine was $300, Tires $400, I have put some other stuff in it, but pretty low budget, recently I have put a manual in and a doubler, but for a good 4 years I only had about $1000 in it). I think it has served it's purpose, We all had fun, it transported people and I learned a lot about off roading, etc... Now I have quite a few higher dollar parts that I have not installed and am debating weather to polish the tird further. Here is what the Klogger currently has:

* Good running 351 V8 with Ford Fuel injection (new timing chain, water pump, 140 amp alternator upgrade, upgraded saginaw power steering pump)
* NP 435 with new clutch, hydraulic clutch setup
* Offroad Design 203/205 Doubler (4:1)
* Twin Traction Beam Front Axle - Best axle ever
* Sterling 10.25 rear, good brakes, 3.55 gears
* Roll Cage, not the world's best, but better than nothing

I have the following parts I was going to put in it:

* Dana 60 - have 35 spline outers, wheel flanges, drop in locker, 5.13 gears, hydro assist steering, essentially when built an axle worth close to $2000
* 5.13 gears for the Sterling
* New rear leaf springs
* Chevy 52" leaf springs for the front
* 42" TSL's on Trail Ready bead locks

My plans were to put all this together and have a locked front and rear full size on 42" tires. This would be the easiest route, but I am debating weather to move forward on this plan for the following reasons:

* A stock F-150 reg cab weighs 3900 lbs, a crew cab tips in at about 6000 lbs, say the difference in a 150 and 250 frame is 1000 lbs and the other 1000 lbs is the body. I essentially would have a locked full size tipping in at 5000 lbs, or a ton more than a jeep. This makes hill climbs suck, breaks more axles, etc...
* It's a f'in full size crew cab, even with great axles, gears, tires, etc.... I would be pumping a bunch of good parts and money into a vehicle that will never be the most capable off road rig.

[KrazyKarl02]

So my options:

Option 1 - Remove the crew cab body, scrap the cage and build a new one:
ADVANTAGES
*About 1000 lbs less weight
*Easy to do, most everything would just bolt up since the truck was originally a reg cab
*Not as large as the crew cab
DISADVANTAGES
*Still on the heavy side compared to Jeeps
*Still wheeling Full width

Option 1.5 - Full size Bronco Body, not really an option to me because it would still be full size/huge and weigh 5000 lbs.

Option 2 - Ford Explorer with V8
*V8 already installed, so no bastardization there, it bolts up to my existing NP435 and doubler
*Narrower than a full size
DISADVANTAGES
*The things weight 4000 lbs, Holy crap an explorer weighs more than an F-150
*Would have to cut the ass end of the explorer off and still wheeling a pretty big vehicle
*Running Explorer buy in price is $1000

Option 3 - Ford Bronco II
ADVANTAGES
* Weighs only 3300 lbs, just a little more than a CJ, about equal to a cherokee
*Narrow body, yet a 32" wide frame. A F-150 has a 33" wide frame, somehow a small bronco ii has only an inch narrower frame, this way things like a NP205 will fit, this is not the case for early Bronco's
*If you outboard the spring hangers, it fits current F-150 axle width's for purches
*Cheap, there is one with no motor or trans on the list for $200
DISADVANTAGE
*Fitting a 302 in one of these is hard, Fitting a 351 sucks and requires 3" of body lift or a lot of work
*Owning a Bronco II

Option 4 - Jeep-dom - Lets just say other narrow rigs, Jeeps, Scouts, etc...
ADVANTAGE
*Narrow
*Light Weight
*I hate Jeeps, so when I ram something I will not be sad
DISADVANTAGE
*Motor mounts, wiring, etc... a lot of work
*Owning a jeep
*High entry price, somehow people still want $2000 for a rusted pile of dog crap

Option 5 - The Unicorn - Find someone who has a buggy set up for a Ford engine and axles, but with no engine, trans or axles, and rape them on the price
ADVANTAGE
*Light weight
*Most capable
DISADVANTAGE
*Like finding a unicorn, and once you did, it would probablt be expensive.

[mudtoy67]

Define "good running".:flipoff2:

You sure an extra two doors and some sheet metal adds 2100 lbs?


I essentially would have a locked full size tipping in at 5000 lbs, or a ton more than a jeep. This makes hill climbs suck, breaks more axles, etc...


To use everyone else's example...JB's rig can't weigh much less and his does great.

Do you have an alternative rig in mind? Or are you just figuring whether to proceed with the Klogger or start looking for an alternative?

edit: guess I didn't read the next post.:laughing:


The primary reason I started taking apart the cruiser was I went back to school and didn't have any money. The reason I took it further and it is the way it is now is I got tired of all the janky stuff I had done before. If this is where you are starting over may be a good idea. You've got a lot of good parts laying around and would just need a good chassis.

[KrazyKarl02]

Good running - it started every time this weekend, when I pushed the go pedal, it went. The idle was ridiculously high, but I am pretty sure I can fix that.

JB's rig is the exception to the rule, and even so he frequently breaks axle shafts, etc... Additionally it will always be wide and heavy, therefore at somewhat of a disadvantage.

I am not saying I will not stick with the Klogger, just thinking it is time to evaluate it before moving forward. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on how you look at it) I have a Ford doubler and a ford (driver's drop) Dana 60, this means I am pretty well locked into a blue oval for motor/drivetrain. If I had a SBC and chevy t-case I think my options would be a lot more, since chevy drivetrain swaps are more common.

[redcagepatrol]

I would search for that unicorn 4-seater chassis with room for a cooler in the back.

All of that glass and sheet metal just seems to get in the way! All of your passengers can take the rain and cold just fine, who needs a roof and doors.

Super light weight, great visability, will go anywhere - less chance of breaking, room for a future kiddo and safe for them too...

[redcagepatrol]

I believe Garrett is doing this same thing (also with Ford crap...). He got wise - even with a capabale narrow EB

[Sharpe]

Super light weight, great visability, will go anywhere - less chance of breaking, room for a future kiddo and safe for them too...

Whats not safe about seatbelts that dont work and doors that randomly fly open at high speed?

[eight]

I was thinking of questioning your putting of good drivetrain components in that thing. If you put them in a smaller rig, it would be more capable than mine is. You'll have 42s, you could run whatever Davido runs.

I think I'd like to see the explorer done. I would not swap the doubler in, you know what that thing weighs. Sell it to some stupid fullsize guy and find a used Atlas or Stak. I see them come up pretty often for things that aren't a jeep. This way you are not bastardizing anything to do with engine/transmission. You can also keep booze wheeling the klogger until you are almost done and need to steal the rear axle, as that's the only part you would need from it (or find another sterling). I bet the explorer will lighten up quite a bit when you chunk the doors, lift gate, and anything that sticks up above the dash (yes, chop the whole roof and windshield off)

Formula for Explorer build.
- Buy explorer
- Remove doors, hatch, windshield, roof. Gut AC (keep compressor for OBA), heater, all other junk that isn't needed. If it has weight and isn't needed, pull it.
- Build cage
- Swap transfer case
- Swap axles
- Add driveshafts
- Install 42s
- Add other stuff
- Kick Ass

Oh, leaf springs don't belong on serious trail vehicles, especially with the badassness of 42s.

[mudtoy67]

1. Buy Lurch
2. Install Ford parts
3. ???
4. Wife profits from life insurance money when Fred kills you.

:D

[davido]

I like the idea of building a different rig on the side and then getting rid of Klogger (if you want). That way you're not down for the time it takes to build it. You're thinking in the right direction of not building that platform up anymore though. I think either buggy like Scott said or find a cheap stripped down rig and buy a wiring harness. I only paid $200 for my body/frame and it might have been worth that. Freddo has a cool green Scout too.

[Sharpe]

There's a scout (800 I think) for sale on the side of 2818 near the Hall. Havent stopped to check the price.

[redcagepatrol]

I like the idea of building a different rig on the side and then getting rid of Klogger (if you want). That way you're not down for the time it takes to build it.

I third that - keep wheeling that while you build mystery rig. I bet you beat Krebs!:flipoff2:

[tigweld]

the ford 203 is the same as the chevy 203 in reguard to the adapter patern(doubler side), so you could do a chevy motor/tranny/first transfer case and still us the ord adapter to the ford transfer to be able the use the ford 60

[robertf03]

It must have been that u turn trail, I've been thinking about the same thing lately.


I say explorer


http://www.explorerforum.com/photopost/data/500/medium/jpark_small.jpg

[JB]

By no means am I suggesting you continue along the fullsize route, but I have only broken 2 shafts in 6+ years, both in weird situations, both used stock 30spliners. I still run stock 86 Bronco driveshafts too.

[Hot Pocket]

I hear that H3's are pretty capable

[mudtoy67]

I hear that H3's are pretty capable

Get back in the box!

[KrazyKarl02]

Good points by all, especially Sharpe. I agree with Scott, if a unicorn buggy popped up I would be all in, but I just do not see that happenning a lot.

A cheap V8 explorer would be a good deal since there would be less wiring voodoo, but I am still not pleased with it's weight. I could lessen that somewhat, but not entirely. If a Bronco II was not such a complete bastard to swap a V8 into, it would be a good deal.

I do not know what to do...

[sam_hodnett]

Good points by all, except Hot Pocket

FIFY :gigem:

[85cj7]

I believe Garrett is doing this same thing (also with Ford crap...). He got wise - even with a capabale narrow EB

Kinda. . . Garrett is swapping the drivetrain from the Bronco into the new two seater buggy to have something to play with while he is putting the 40"s, stak, and 609s into the EB. Then he is gonna sell it.

Karl, you need to go something like that. Just find a good tube chassis like garrett did. He payed around the 1.5K mark for the two seater with ford drivetrain mounts and 3/4 link parts.

[stx4wheeler]

Leave the floor(what's left of it) and firewall and tube the rest out. This way you can still wheel and use your current cage seats till you figure out what design you like.

Bronco two's are homosexual and 4dr explorers aren't far behind that.
A 2dr explorer or explorer sport trac would be alright.

Keep it below 5k lbs and I think you will be fine with current axle/DriveTrain/tire package.

[JB]

Leave the floor(what's left of it) and firewall and tube the rest out. This way you can still wheel and use your current cage seats till you figure out what design you like.

Bronco two's are homosexual and 4dr explorers aren't far behind that.
A 2dr explorer or explorer sport trac would be alright.

Keep it below 5k lbs and I think you will be fine with current axle/DriveTrain/tire package.

Are you on crack? 2DR explorers and sporttracs are thuper:rainbow: There are some decent looking B2s on the pirate ford board.

[KrazyKarl02]

Leave the floor(what's left of it) and firewall and tube the rest out. This way you can still wheel and use your current cage seats till you figure out what design you like.

Bronco two's are homosexual and 4dr explorers aren't far behind that.
A 2dr explorer or explorer sport trac would be alright.

Keep it below 5k lbs and I think you will be fine with current axle/DriveTrain/tire package.


2DR explorers never came with V8's, not sure if there is a reason for this?

[RCcola55]

Keep with your plan as is, 4door and 60 swap, cut the roof out for the most part and make a canvas cover, remover the glass and gut the doors, finish out the cage. I think it is a kickass setup just needs some tweeking to make it right.

[stx4wheeler]

As much as I hate this idea here is a 97 exploded for $450

http://houston.craigslist.org/pts/2133453200.html

[mudtoy67]

As much as I hate this idea here is a 97 exploded for $450

http://houston.craigslist.org/pts/2133453200.html

It's a 4.0 though...


Option 2 - Ford Explorer with V8
*V8 already installed, so no bastardization there, it bolts up to my existing NP435 and doubler

[KrazyKarl02]

It's a 4.0 though...

Correct, I called on it last night.... :rolleyes:

[KrazyKarl02]

<Friday Night>
Karl: Hello Klogger
Klogger: Hey, why am I in the Garage, why aremy wheels off?
Karl: Do not worry, here pose for the patented TTB Pictures

[KrazyKarl02]

Klogger: ahh,what the, really? A plasma cutter? Ouch that burns...

[KrazyKarl02]

Thanks to Tommy, Mike, and Robbie. Now to install the STB (single traction beam) axle.

[85cj7]

not cool karl, you have turned against everything you love. Next your going to be telling us your NOT gay!








What are the 60 plans? linked or radius arms?

[KrazyKarl02]

Ok, bring the comments on about links, radius arms, 3 links, inverted Ellen Degeneres torsion suspension.

Ultimately this thing is never going to be a super vehicle, so I decided to go the quicker/easier route. Here are the plans with status:

*Ford High Pinion Dana 60 STB Axle
*5.13:1 gears
*Lock Right Locker
*35 spline chromo outers
*1 chromo inner shaft on the long side (it was damaged, so had to get a new one)
*Spicer joints
*Rebuilt kingpins, spindles, etc...
*Wheel flanges (not hubs)
*Mad 4X4 high steer (heims, etc...
*Leaf Sprung - Stock F-350 rear hangers, kustom front, Chevy 52's for springs w/ full length add-a-leaf to control wrap
*SOLID Dif cover

[85cj7]

Sounds clean and simple. Screw links on this thing, it is the klogger after all. I have to say though I am a bit surprised that you did away with the TTB before you grenaded it though.
BTW if you go searching for any 52"s and want to make some money I am in need of a set. Let me know what the picknpull wants and i'll pay ya extra to pull them.
Good luck on the build. Keep the pics coming.

[redcagepatrol]

I support that plan - good option for the Klogger

[KrazyKarl02]

Sounds clean and simple. Screw links on this thing, it is the klogger after all. I have to say though I am a bit surprised that you did away with the TTB before you grenaded it though.
BTW if you go searching for any 52"s and want to make some money I am in need of a set. Let me know what the picknpull wants and i'll pay ya extra to pull them.
Good luck on the build. Keep the pics coming.

Springs are $80 a set a pick n pull, go knock yourself out.

[85cj7]

Springs are $80 a set a pick n pull, go knock yourself out.


Pulling springs sucks!!

[eight]

I predict with the awesomeness of 42" TSLs, you will need an anti-wrap bar.

[KrazyKarl02]

I predict with the awesomeness of 42" TSLs, you will need an anti-wrap bar.

Anyone have a picture of a good front anti-wrap bar? I am pretty sure I have the rear figured out.

[JB]

Me no got it the anti wrap bar. No problems.

I knew you'd succumb.

[robertf03]

Anyone have a picture of a good front anti-wrap bar? I am pretty sure I have the rear figured out.

this works well

[cj nut]

yes, you must keep the klogger. After all who is karl without the klogger? but in all seriousness Im dissapointed that ford never made a TTB60.... The klogger would have really loved that....Just think 42's on a TTB 60....

[KrazyKarl02]

Last weekend Coop, Robbie and Jerry came over, we drank some beers and go the front mount tacked on. I played with number of springs in the pack and the location of the front mount and cmae up with this. It has about 8" of travel from normal load to full droop.

[davido]

Sweet jack stand! :D

[KrazyKarl02]

The keg has no weight on it, the Jack stands have weight on them, I threw the keg in there "just in case"

[DRAGOONRANCH]

You never had 8"s of droop when I was around. :confused:

[RCcola55]

8"? you should be able to get a little more, i think mine was 13-14 and cooks should be about the same. But then again its not all about the length of travel, but how its used right?

[KrazyKarl02]

8"? you should be able to get a little more, i think mine was 13-14 and cooks should be about the same. But then again its not all about the length of travel, but how its used right?

That is not full up travel, that is just from how the truck would sit on level surface to full droop, so I wouuld expect 12" or so of total travel. This is also without the axle pulling down the spring too.

[JB]

Mr. Crouch, do you have any doubler crossmember pics?

Seems some people (mostly those w/o an ORD adapter) support the 205 on the acccess plate or in the yoke area.

I plan on a crossmember under the adapter bc the adpater has 2 threaded holes which you cant actually see in the alst pic, but you can see the flat part of the adapter that sits on the crossmember. The bolts thread up into the adapter.

[Sharpe]

The second pic, why the F would you go to that much trouble to make the plates to go over the yoke seal retainer and access plate when there are two 1/2" threaded holes RIGHT THERE?? In general, I dont like the idea of plates like that that mount to something that retains fluid. Same concept as mounting a ram to a diff cover. The stress causes leaks, F that.

[KrazyKarl02]

Just for JB, here are some pic's. I still have not made my "3rd" cross member for the 205, I need to, but I wheeled it like this in Clayton last December and at Alto in October. The tube is 1.75" 0.120 HREW. In Clayton I drug it on some stuff, and it dented about an 1/8", I am thinking about re-doing it with some 1.75" 0.250" DOM (that I already have), but I might just drink beer instead.

Here is one from the rear (insert Ed joke here), you can see where it scraped in Clayton, there is one from the side to show how low it hangs.

[KrazyKarl02]

Here is a picture of my front shaft (insert second Ed joke here), I just 45'd the tube and put it together. One more tricky thing, to clear my doubler shifters (Off Road Design 3 stick) and still be close to the trans mount, I had to rotate the entire thing about 10 degrees forward. So where my cross member goes from bushing to verticle, it is not at 90 degrees, it is like at 80 degrees towards the front of the truck. The shifters are freaking close!

Second photo shows my shifters, when you get in you just have to ignore the wholes for the frame in the back and the gaping holes for the cage.....

[Sparling]

Could you flip the angle so it goes up instead of down and run the crossmember higher? Maybe use some square/rectangle tube with .25" plate welded to the bottom for the T-case mount? It's hard to tell what kind of room you have down there.

[KrazyKarl02]

Here are some pics of the 60 swap, I say 60 swap, but it should be called the single traction beam installation with new winch mount, leaf spring conversion, high steer, hydro assist, etc..... swap.... It's taking a long time as work has been crazy. The steering is not complete, the bolts in the heims are just there for adjustment, safety washers, castle nuts, etc... will be installed, so don't bitch about that.

Oh the axle is a Ford Dana 60 with 5.13's and a lock right. Steering arms are Mad 4X4. Drag link hole is 7.75" out from center of king pin, tie rod is placed for clearance. Heims are 3/4". Outer shafts are chrome-moly, so is long side inner. Spicer u-joints. "Solid" diff cover, this thing is awesome, the cover was like $80 shipped, I challenge anyone who is looking at a weld together cover to look at this. Springs are Chevy's 2.5" wide with a full length add a leaf for wrap.

[KrazyKarl02]

Oh the rear leaf spring mounts are actually from a 1 ton Ford Stock, you may have seen them on Clarke's Bronco in the past. They are welded and bolted to the frame.

[KrazyKarl02]

Could you flip the angle so it goes up instead of down and run the crossmember higher? Maybe use some square/rectangle tube with .25" plate welded to the bottom for the T-case mount? It's hard to tell what kind of room you have down there.

You could, but this is not complete (nothing ever is), the idea was to tie the front, middle, and future rear cross member together and plate them. The plate would have a hole where the current t-case bolts are for access. This way the bolts would be under the plate and not rub when you drag it on a rock.

Is that what you were talking about? It is hard sometimes to understand what people are asking on the interweb.

[JB]

Looks good Karl.

[JB]

What bushings are you using for your crossmember mounts? Just some standard poly leaf spring bushings? If so, where do you get them.

[KrazyKarl02]

They are a poly mount, I think they are actually summit brand, I forget where I got them. I was not particular to anything, I bought them because they were on super sale. They have grease fittings, which are not needed, but since they had them I went ahead and put them in.

[KrazyKarl02]

42's!1865818659

[eight]

Is that a dumpster it is sitting next to? Wife make you clean up?

[KrazyKarl02]

No I did not like the color of the sheetrock in my house, so I had to do some remodeling.....

[davido]

Dam sexy! Maybe too sexy to drink Keystone out of now... may, probably not. :D

[KrazyKarl02]

For those unaware, at Alto my truck ate a distributor gear, again at Clayton it ate another one, it was hungry... The background on the engine is this, it is from a 1994 Ford Bronco, 351. I removed the 1994 Fuel Injection and put 1989 Fuel Injection on it so it would plug into my existing truck harness. At this time I assumed the engine and injection system were the same and all I was doing was making the change so it would be plug and play. Apparently I was incorrect...

Internet research shows sometime around 1993 to 1995 Ford made the 351 in the Bronco a roller motor. This is further backed if you go to O'reilly's in 1993 it is a flat cam and in 1994 it only offers a roller cam. Lucky me, I have a roller motor, crappy way to find out...

So here is a question, to verify this I guess I can pull a valve cover and look to see if I see the hydraulic roller connector? If so there are 2 options.

Option 1 - Tear down the front side of the motor, inspect the cam gear, if it is bad replace the cam (~$300), put steel gear on distributor, kick ass again
Option 2 - Pull distributor, put steel gear on, kick ass and hope that the cam is not damaged.

Which option would you guys go with? At Clayton Fred and I looked down at the cam gear and it did not look bad, but we could only see like 40% of it and we were a foot away shining a flash light down a hole? If I did option 2 I could cary a spare metal gear, the only thing would be if the cam gear shat out you would be SOL....

Thoughts?

[mudtoy67]

This is the dog bone the roller lifters use and spider that holds them I was talking about. I think if you pull the valve cover (driver would probably be easiest) you should be able to look down the hole the pushrod comes through and see this. If so, I'd go option 2.

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/7569/0502cct41zfordsmallbloc.jpg

Do you have the original distributor that came with the motor? Knoeller mentioned there may also be different diameter distributor gears. I didn't get a good look at the one you pulled Friday, but I thought it looked like it only stripped near the outer edge of the tooth? Like maybe the gear you were using was too small?

[KrazyKarl02]

I no longer have the distributor that went with that motor. I'm thinking a good cam inspection thru the hole and option 2.

[Fredo]

I say option 2 if you don't trust the current "flame heat treated" gear that is in there now.

[KrazyKarl02]

I say option 2 if you don't trust the current "flame heat treated" gear that is in there now.

You mean that one with the little chip in it....

[Fredo]

I thought we weren't going to talk about how inaccurately you swing a hammer. :D

[davido]

You KNOW I would go Option 2. :D Thoroughness has no role in Klogger maintenance.

[KrazyKarl02]

I thought we weren't going to talk about how inaccurately you swing a hammer. :D

Ok, so we learned this trip that we should not only ease up on the drinking on the trail, but also when doing delicate internal engine work.

[stx4wheeler]

I told you so Mr. Look at Me with my big hammer.

Option 2, or preform an exorcist on the motor!

[KrazyKarl02]

Flem/Ryno, how many happy times can we fit under the hood?

[KrazyKarl02]

Never got a chance to post this, 3rd doubler croee member with integrated anti-wrap bar mount.

[Hellbent]

Never got a chance to post this, 3rd doubler croee member with integrated anti-wrap bar mount.

Saw that when it was on the trailer. Looks good

[KrazyKarl02]

The newest option for the 1982 -1994 Ford F-series, the deer stand mover. Frick came over Tuesday and we welded the frame together, it is 2 - 9' lengths of pipe with 3 cross bars (one at the top, one at the bottom, and one at the pivot point), then I put a large pipe over the center one to make the hinge. I attached 2 4000 lbs come-alongs to the top. You back up to the deer stand, dig the legs out, attach come-alongs, pull it up and tip it back. Then strap it to the cab.

I figured it would either work awesome, or implode on itself. It worked better than I could have expected. Jerry, Jason M, Jason (2cats) and I went to the lease and were very pleasantly surprised.

[BroncoJo]

nice!

[KrazyKarl02]

Wonder why it wouldn't start this weekend???

19207

Fender damage, what fender damage?

19206

And this should fix that stalling winch problem...

19205

[stx4wheeler]

How many horsepower does the ram air hood add?

[Sharpe]

What happened to the rest of your kustom light bar?

[KrazyKarl02]

Ram Air Hood adds 15.3 HP.

Custom Light Bar was found to be one of the major root causes of the 8274 failure, so it was removed in favor of 2 sharp pointy pieces of angle iron.

[KrazyKarl02]

Driveshaft geihness....

Ok, so if I am going to shell out money for a fancy round driveshaft, I might as well make it strong and right. Currently the Klogger ran a square tube shaft with 1330's on each end. I realize that u-joint strength is a function of angle and a lot of other things, but here is a dumbed down version on strength of u-joints and allowable angle below from a random interweb source

Series Torque lb/ft Angle
1310 1600 30
1330 1800 20
1350 2200 20
1410 2800 37

Seems most big boy rigs run 1350 u-joints or better. Although my information above does not indicate it, I have heard reference that the 1350 joint allows less angle than a 1350. So here is my plan, broken down with cost estimates starting from the t-case end to the axle end.

Replace Transfer case yoke with a 1410 yoke, it is stronger and allows for more angle. The t-case yoke is critical as it is relatively parallel to the ground and can not be rotated like the axle yoke. Also cheaper than going double cardon with a 1350. Cost $89
1410 U-joint ? Cost $31
1410 Tube Yoke to 2? X 0.120 wall tube, this is dictated by the slip collar shown later - $85
2? X 0.120 wall tube 3? - $30
Neapco 53-2415 Sleeve. Cool flyer about this product here: http://www.neapco.com/pdf/Rock_Crawler_Flyer_9901315.pdf note this has to be turned down to fit the 2? X0.120 Wall tube - $52.17
Neapco 2231-3 10 Spline Shaft, 25? long, 6? has to go in collar, 1? has to go in other end, leaving 18? of pure awesome travel. Thought about cutting this in half, but 12.5 minus the 6? collar, only leave 6? travel, which is no bueno por caca. - $140.53
Neapco 53-2415 Sleeve. Buy an extra sleeve, cut it into 1/3?s, use it for an adapter from the spline to tube. I could make something in a lathe, but for $50, I could make 3 of these adapter and it would be stronger I think - $52.17
Small section of 2? X 0.120 wall tube from above purchase
1350 Tube Yoke 2? X 0.120 wall - $26.89
1350 Spicer U-joint - $24
1350 Dana 60 Yoke, 1350 will work on driveshaft end for 2 reasons, one the angle change is not as great as it is at the t-case end, and this will be a weak link, I think the 1410 would break the pinion before breaking - $69
Various u-joint straps - $20

Total for an 18? travel driveshaft with good u-joints, etc? $619.76 F? me. I know you can get a driveshaft from high angle in the $500 range, but this is not upgrading outputs to 1410 and 1350, which I think you need to do. Comments or ideas how to do it cheaper?

[TdmayfieldIV]

I have never broken a driveshaft u joint, and mine are stock. Change the t-case yoke to 1350 and get a used f250 driveshaft. Get it retubed for length. Should be around $300

Travis broke my cv....that's another story though

[colman]

i know brian broke several 1350 joints in the blazer. ive broke a **** ton of 1310 but then again those are 1310 and most came with the driveshafts i shortened and installed.....

[Sparling]

Buy big driveshafts from a junkyard and retube them. Cut down on new driveshaft parts as much as you can.

[KrazyKarl02]

The issue is with reverse shackles and my flex a "stock" driveshaft slip joint is too short. The longest available is used in Ford Pickups and offers 6" to 7"'s of slip, I need around 10" of slip. Additionally finding F250 cardon joints for front 4x4's is pretty hard.

[bcolman]

the only reason that i would gernade 1350 daily on trips was because I was running them at extreme angles, judging by you above angle limits i would guess i was in the 15-20 degree range, that and lots of axle wrap. On the other hand I have broken a 1350 cv but that was because I was being stupid and full throttled a 3.5 - 4 foot ledge. All in all if I were to do it agian I would figure out how to run a 1410 at all ends and not cv's, which may be in my future

[Shaggy]

I run Woody's. they seem to have better track record and customer service for about the same $

[Shaggy]

I'm also running 1350 with minimal slip. My link setup doesn't move much.

[JB]

It moved quite a bit at TCC last year ;)

[Sharpe]

It moved quite a bit at TCC last year ;)

Hey-ooooooopl

[KrazyKarl02]

That would be a major advantage of link setups, you do not need much slip because the links themselves locate the axle.

[davido]

I'd either do what Sparling said or just call Jesse and order what you need. I bought mine from Jesse and I've never touched my front one. Ever.

However, Scott identified my rear as matching a F250 front shaft, just shortened. I was blowing out the CVs (when I break a spring, the axle slides forward and jambs it up) and they were expensive. But now I'm able to fix them on the cheap. I picked up two for $175 from the junkyard and thanks to Doug I have a replacement and now have a spare.

[CheapJeep]

I've bought a couple 1350 flanges and 1410 yoke from Jesse, had great service and got the parts quick.

I had my driveshafts built by Houston Drivetrain Service (North side of 610 and Wayside). Both are double cardon, 1410's at the axles and 1350 flanges at the Stak. I took my front shaft back to them and had a long slip (like 16"s if I recall) added in. Works great now.

[KrazyKarl02]

Who is Jesse?

[85cj7]

Who is Jesse?

High angle driveline

[Sharpe]

Jesse is the owner of High Angle. His **** is pricey but his customer service is great and he's about the easiest way to just get it done.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

Jesse is the owner of High Angle. His **** is pricey but his customer service is great and he's about the easiest way to just get it done.

X2

I highly recommend him and his ability to put out an outstanding product. It may cost a few dollars more, but the time and trouble saved are well worth it.

[KrazyKarl02]

Ordered my driveshaft stuff from Ontario Engine & Machine:

http://www.ontarioengine.com/

They had the best price on the shaft/sleeve - $175.65 for the shaft and sleeve

At any rate, I ordered it a little over a week ago and had not recieved, so I called the number. The owner/manager Vic Logan answered. Super nice guy, he remembered the order just by me saying I ordered a long travel spline and some 1410 stuff. Was able to find it without me even telling him my name. He looked it up, its due for delivery today. I then spent 25 minutes asking him questions that he answered completly. Even gave me tips on how to machine some of the stuff to work. If any of you guys are going to make a long travel, I would use them for parts or the entire shaft.

[tommy53002]

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1020076

Kloggers prettier twin sister.

[KrazyKarl02]

F' that radius armed ball joint 60 pile of parts. Granted his fab is better than mine, but the klogger will out wheel that thing any day. I was going to do a radius arm thing similar to what he did, and for the time the leaf springs took, I am glad I went the way I did.

And don't forget, Klogger Kab Version 3.0 is coming in 2013!

[tommy53002]

And don't forget, Klogger Kab Version 3.0 is coming in 2013!

Give me a call if you want a hand.

[eight]

Certurion conversion this time?

[Shaggy]

That would be awesome if it had a full size bed/ fold down back seat like my dads old truck.

[KrazyKarl02]

Got my driveshaft made. Picture here shows the parts, Starting from top right, going left 1) 1350 weld yoke, 2) piece of 2.750" 0.250" wall DOM tube, I had to ID bore the tube on my Dad's lathe to make it fit the yoke, 3) Splined sleeve that I turned the OD and cut in half, this acts as the bushing between the tube and splined shaft. I welded the splined yoke to this piece and then this piece to the tube.

Next middle level is the Neapco shaft (part 4) and sleeve (part 5) listed in posts above. The splined section is 25" long, the sleeve is 6", it is made on the far left side to fit a smaller tube, but I used the larger diameter and turned it to fit in the tube.

Bottom row: 6) more of the 2.75" X 0.250 tube, I had to turn the OD down on the end of this, the wall was like 0.180 when I was done finally 7) is a 1410 weld yoke, I bored the ID on the mill to fit the OD of the turned section of tube.

[KrazyKarl02]

Finished product, at ride height 39.25" long with 7" up travel slip, 10" down travel slip, 1410 yoke on T-Case side, 1350 on axle side. Welded together on the highest setting my mig will go to.....19331

[davido]

Pretty slick! So under $200 for all of it?

[KrazyKarl02]

Pretty slick! So under $200 for all of it?

Ha! under 200 for the slip shaft and sleeve....

[eight]

You know you wouldn't need that **** if you just put a proper suspension under it.

[KrazyKarl02]

I am pretty sure proper suspension will not fit under the giant Ford cross member, I had to clearance it a lot for hydro-assist.

[mudtoy67]

you know you wouldn't need that **** if you just put a proper suspension under it.

TTB? :confused2

[davido]

Next up!

http://houston.craigslist.org/cto/3542115510.html

http://images.craigslist.org/3K13Gf3oe5N95H95Jdd1c18454ea40e4111a2.jpg

[TexTJ209]

Next up!

http://houston.craigslist.org/cto/3542115510.html

http://images.craigslist.org/3K13Gf3oe5N95H95Jdd1c18454ea40e4111a2.jpg


King Krew Kab Klogger?

[KrazyKarl02]

Parts available for a price, axles doubler, driveshaft and winch already have a home.

Brand new steering box, strong running 351 with complete harness and acc., NP435, clutch pedals, fuel tank with pump, Chevy springs in the front, F-350 rear springs, etc.. Plus I have an extra crew cab body, I have 8 doors behind my house and a front clip for a 90 ferd.

[Shaggy]

Say it ain't so

[KrazyKarl02]

Rest in pieces old friend....

We had some good times...

[davido]

Crazy!