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BigRedFord04
10-15-2002, 09:47 PM
I'm actually just lookin' for general ideas on what could be wrong w/ my truck. After i got back here from Llano it was running like total sh¡t. Ran kinda rough on the drive from Austin. Now, it has absolutely no power, really really rough idle that is lower than normal. Slight backfire I can hear thru a small exhaust leak. It doesnt really improve as the RPMs get higher. After tonite, i can hear a slight high pitched popping coming from the general area of the passenger side bottom of the motor. I've replaced the cap, rotor, plugs, O2 sensor, fuel filter and added Berryman's to both tanks because I thought it could be bad gas. None of the above has helped much. timing isnt adjustable, set by the computer. i'm trying to do as much as i can on warranty items so the next things are wires and coil, but those are kinda last resorts. After that is bad injectors and other expensive stuff. Does anyone have any clue? Is there anyone who will be on campus tomorrow that could take a listen and maybe suggest something? I'm free before 9, 11-1230, and 3-430, then after 630...please help, i'm running out of ideas.
512.468.1604 cell

robertf03
10-15-2002, 10:16 PM
water in the tank? happened to me

BigRedFord04
10-15-2002, 10:43 PM
both tanks though?? kinda hard to believe

robertf03
10-15-2002, 10:49 PM
have you pulled the codes on it yet?

does yours have a crankshaft positioning sensor on the front of the engine block by the harmonic balancer?

BigRedFord04
10-15-2002, 10:54 PM
no codes, check engine light isnt on, dont think it has the sensor

bigFAWKINranger
10-15-2002, 10:56 PM
Originally posted by BigRedFord04
I'm actually just lookin' for general ideas on what could be wrong w/ my truck. After i got back here from Llano it was running like total sh¡t. Ran kinda rough on the drive from Austin. Now, it has absolutely no power, really really rough idle that is lower than normal. Slight backfire I can hear thru a small exhaust leak. It doesnt really improve as the RPMs get higher. After tonite, i can hear a slight high pitched popping coming from the general area of the passenger side bottom of the motor. I've replaced the cap, rotor, plugs, O2 sensor, fuel filter and added Berryman's to both tanks because I thought it could be bad gas. None of the above has helped much. timing isnt adjustable, set by the computer. i'm trying to do as much as i can on warranty items so the next things are wires and coil, but those are kinda last resorts. After that is bad injectors and other expensive stuff. Does anyone have any clue? Is there anyone who will be on campus tomorrow that could take a listen and maybe suggest something? I'm free before 9, 11-1230, and 3-430, then after 630...please help, i'm running out of ideas.
512.468.1604 cell

call brian. you know who i'm talkin about.... i am SURE he can help you...

aggielr
10-15-2002, 11:04 PM
i'd have to listen to it, but sounds kinda like a bad injector, is it multiport injected?

BigRedFord04
10-15-2002, 11:20 PM
EFI

StevenAg03
10-15-2002, 11:22 PM
Originally posted by BigRedFord04
EFI


yes it is multiport.....multiport is a type of EFI along with throttle body

aggielr
10-15-2002, 11:28 PM
pull some of the injectors and get someone to crank on it, see if its gettin gas or maybe too much

BigRedFord04
10-15-2002, 11:32 PM
pulling injectors involves taking the intake manifold off :rolleyes:

StevenAg03
10-15-2002, 11:38 PM
negative ghostrider....you can pull the passenger side off with out removing the intake and you can take the passenger side off with only removing the upper plenum

only 6 bolts or so

BMFScout
10-15-2002, 11:58 PM
wolverton, I'm sorry buddy, there are other girls out there, many other fish in the sea, get em next time tiger, and so on... good to have you back :) :)

StevenAg03
10-15-2002, 11:59 PM
no no....im fixing to go back over there....just came home to wash some clothes.....:D :D

BigRedFord04
10-16-2002, 12:29 AM
oh geez....:rolleyes:

mark
10-16-2002, 06:29 AM
Check the throttle position sensor(TPS) and MAP(or MAF) sensor for both moisture and corrosion.

Here's how ya do it:

Unplug the TPS. See if it runs any differently. If it runs better there is your problem. It should trigger a check engine light.

If that doesn't work, do the same with the MAP (or MAF).

-Mark
The Psychic Mechanic

bburris
10-16-2002, 07:45 AM
Originally posted by StevenAg03
....just came home to wash some clothes.....:D :D


at least the kid is washing clothes these days....

Krawler68
10-16-2002, 08:00 AM
Originally posted by bburris



at least the kid is washing clothes these days....

I think I wouldn't know what to do without that special Steven "Funk"... it's like his signature smell... prolly wat attracted Aggielisa04... he better not wash his clothes too much... :D

BigRedFord04
10-16-2002, 03:41 PM
Another question: I've been getting really bad oil blow-back into the breather/air filter box. What is this a sign of?

Rex
10-16-2002, 08:04 PM
Something similar happened to a friend's Wrangler. They went up to Las cruses and it started running really bad and it sounded like a rod was knocking. It turned out to be a bad injector on the 6th cylinder because crap in the fuel rail slid down on one of the uphills and clogged that injector.

jmancuso
10-16-2002, 08:54 PM
I don't claim to be much of a mechanic but it sounds like its time for the HO 5.0 swap!

BigRedFord04
10-16-2002, 09:59 PM
from what i've heard, the only difference in an HO 5.0 is that its a regular 5.0 w/ a 5.8 cam and firing order. Been waiting to do that 'til i have to tear into the motor, but its on the list.

I went back up to O'Reillys tonite and went over a bunch of sensors. I finally found the Intake Air Temp Sensor and got that replaced, no improvement. I disconnected the TPS as per Mark's suggestion, ran worse and did cause the check engine light to come on, not it. Forgot to do the MAP sensor, but will try that tomorrow. Also, tried removing the JET control module, ran worse w/o it, not it. I checked over the whole engine compartment again...plug wires are good, couldnt see or hear any vacuum leaks. If i do end up pulling them, is there a way to test injectors?? its looking like the last resort is going to be the problem. :( :(

bigFAWKINranger
10-16-2002, 10:33 PM
Originally posted by BigRedFord04
from what i've heard, the only difference in an HO 5.0 is that its a regular 5.0 w/ a 5.8 cam and firing order. Been waiting to do that 'til i have to tear into the motor, but its on the list.

I went back up to O'Reillys tonite and went over a bunch of sensors. I finally found the Intake Air Temp Sensor and got that replaced, no improvement. I disconnected the TPS as per Mark's suggestion, ran worse and did cause the check engine light to come on, not it. Forgot to do the MAP sensor, but will try that tomorrow. Also, tried removing the JET control module, ran worse w/o it, not it. I checked over the whole engine compartment again...plug wires are good, couldnt see or hear any vacuum leaks. If i do end up pulling them, is there a way to test injectors?? its looking like the last resort is going to be the problem. :( :(

i thought the HO had different heads on it too... like 351 heads i think... maybe not... i coulda sworn i heard that.

and i'm no mechanic, but i thought you could remove the injector rail while still connected to the fuel line. then crank the motor and see if the injectors are functioning properly. not sure but worth a shot...

BigRedFord04
10-16-2002, 11:35 PM
hmmm....i'm not sure....i know a 351 Modified is a 351 w/ 400 heads....the Haynes Manual doesnt say anything about testing injectors :-\

Rex
10-17-2002, 12:44 AM
Isn't there an injector cleaner that you can buy that screws int the schrader valve on the fuel rail? That MIGHT have enough pressure to clean the injector.

davido
10-17-2002, 08:03 AM
Hey Austin,

I know you just replaced a lot of it, but is there any way it could be a clogged exhaust system? Bad cat or maybe even the ol' banana in the tailpipe. :D

Really though, it does sound like it could be clogged.

~dso

StevenAg03
10-17-2002, 10:39 AM
the HO motor is the same block as the regular 5.0. However, the heads are a little bit better heads(they are not 351 heads. you have to have an adapter made for 351 heads to fit onto the 302 block since nothing from ford is transferable...)and a higher flow intake. im sure there are several other differences as well...

Krawler68
10-17-2002, 12:54 PM
Steven-

everything from a 351W should hypothetically fit on a 302 or 289...the blocks are all from the same family. Right?

robertf03
10-17-2002, 02:00 PM
different deck height

Doug Krebs
10-17-2002, 02:09 PM
Mike my roomate (FBronco86) told me how to test injectors. Don't take them out, just pull the spark plug wire off, if it runs worse, you know that cylinder is getting gas, if it doesn't run any worse, you know that cylinder isn't getting gas. That will work as long as it isn't your ignition system! - Doug

BigRedFord04
10-17-2002, 02:20 PM
should i grab the wire while its running?!?!?? :rolleyes: steve did that after a meeting one nite while inspecting under my hood...he jumped and screamed like a girl...it was funny sh¡t...thx for the advice

87BRONCO
10-17-2002, 11:59 PM
I'd be willing to bet my money on a big vaccum leak. Look for big sources of vaccum (ie brake booster). Might try putting a vaccum gauge on one of the lines and see what its pulling. If its not pulling enough, a good way to find a vaccum leak is to spray a mist of carbureator/injector cleaner around engine compartment. Engine will idle up when vaccum sucks the injector cleaner.

Just an idea

bigFAWKINranger
10-20-2002, 03:38 PM
Originally posted by 87BRONCO
I'd be willing to bet my money on a big vaccum leak. Look for big sources of vaccum (ie brake booster). Might try putting a vaccum gauge on one of the lines and see what its pulling. If its not pulling enough, a good way to find a vaccum leak is to spray a mist of carbureator/injector cleaner around engine compartment. Engine will idle up when vaccum sucks the injector cleaner.

Just an idea

i'm impressed. only has one post and already comin at us with some valueable tech info... some ppl on this board have dozens of posts and nothing valueable to say. i like this guy already.

aggie06stud
10-22-2002, 02:19 AM
that's actually not a bad idea. you might also want to check all vacuum conections and make sure that they are on all the way. that's what killed my firebird awhile back, and it had the same exact problems your truck seem s to have. my uncle, who ended up being one of the pres. of NAPA said "always start with the little stuff and progress to the harder s**t once the easy stuff is working right". he's never been wrong.

BigRedFord04
10-22-2002, 02:26 PM
Originally said by aggie06stud's uncle
"always start with the little stuff and progress to the harder s**t once the easy stuff is working right"
Thats what I've been doing...thus far:
Replaced: Cap, Rotor, Plugs, O2 Sensor, Fuel Filter, Intake Air Temp Sensor
Tested: MAP and Throttle Position Sensors, and JET Module
Checked: Air Filter, Wires, and Vacuum Lines
Next Up: Test Wires, Pull Fuel Rail and Test Injectors

I've kinda taken a break from it for now to TRY and focus on school...i dont have $$ to go anywhere anyway

froader03
10-22-2002, 03:08 PM
Originally posted by aggie06stud
"always start with the little stuff and progress to the harder s**t once the easy stuff is working right". he's never been wrong.

great idea. think I had that one figured out about 4 years before I was legally driving. :D

aggie06stud
10-22-2002, 03:16 PM
eh, you never know.

froader03
10-22-2002, 04:13 PM
and unfortunately I can't aruge with that... dammit :rolleyes:

BigRedFord04
10-22-2002, 04:44 PM
Originally posted by eight
Have you checked if it has a dead cylinder yet?
What the hell does that mean?

froader03
10-22-2002, 05:05 PM
what, like running on 7? or 5 in my case... think he woulda been able to tell if that was the case. please elaborate if you mean something else.

eight
10-22-2002, 11:48 PM
Yep, that's what I meant. I just wanted to make sure he had done it.

Another thing to do. Unplug and replug every electrical connection that could have anyhting to do with it. Sometimes that will fix it.

Check the timing. Even though its not adjustable, it would be good to check on it.

Some bad things to think about. Burnt valve (probably not). Timing chain jumped a tooth (very possible). Timing chain jumped and the valves got bent (I hope not).

Check the compression. If one cylinder is way off from the rest, you've probably got a burnt valve. If they're all low, the chain could have jumped. How many miles are on the engine?

Sympthoms of a jumped chain:
Low power. Low idle. Backfire. The intake valves close too late and the combustion backfires into the intake. Since you have TPI it is not very noticable because of the "dry" intake. If you had TBI or a carb, all the air/fuel in the intake would explode and it would probably not run. Idles low because it is not sucking enough air. Same reason for the low power plus the exhaust valve opens later so the piston starts to compress the exhaust before the valve is opened. What happens if you keep driving with a slipped chain? It slips again. I don't think your engine is "free wheeling" so once it slips far enough the valves will all get bent. Bent valves break, fall into the cylinder, and you do the 5.0 H.O. swap.

Hopefully someone will shoot this to ****. Just what I think.

aggie06stud
10-23-2002, 12:41 AM
i know that it's very possible to jump a tooth, but how wasily can you do that? unless the chain was worn to sh!t first. that's happened to me before. expensive as hell! hope...pray it's not the damn timing. most likely it won't, but you never know till you check.

aggie06stud
10-23-2002, 01:30 AM
good thinkin. what do you think could have caused it though?

bburris
10-23-2002, 07:47 AM
a locked up oil pump, in my case...that caused a chain reaction to put my Jeep in the driveway at home where it sits until I get enough time to do something about it

BigRedFord04
10-28-2002, 12:33 PM
Last week I tried running a complete intake cleaning like they'd do @ Jiffy Lube or the like, running the cleaner thru a vacuum line into the intake...made all the white smoke and such but didnt help the problem. Next step I guess is to pull wires and see if it runs any worse w/o one connected. After that, pull injectors.

StevenAg03
10-28-2002, 12:37 PM
one thing that will be easier then pulling the plug wires off is to use a test light. connect the clip end to a ground(battery works fine) and then put the sharp end into the top of the plug wire on the distributer. it will be grounding out the wire and accomplishing the same thing as pulling the wire and you WILL NOT get shocked like i usually do. also it will be easier to tell if there is a change if you can put a load on the motor. on my truck and jeep it is real easy. all you have to do is get someone to put it in gear, hold the break and give it a little bit of gas. im not sure if you could have someone ease out the clutch a little bit until the motor has a load or not.....

BigRedFord04
10-28-2002, 12:47 PM
I'm not sure I understand...why put it in the top of the plug wire on the distributor? what does that test?

mark
10-28-2002, 12:56 PM
Don't forget to test fuel pressure.

-Mark

StevenAg03
10-28-2002, 12:57 PM
the electrical impulse takes the past of leaste resistance....therefore when you put the sharp end of the test light into the boot on the distributer, the spark will go through the test light and not the wire. there is more resistance in the wire then the test light...

doing this is the same as pulling the wire off of the plug itself as long as you have the other end of the test light grounded.


¿Pregunte más?

BigRedFord04
10-28-2002, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by BigRedFord04
what does that test?
WHAT DOES THAT TEST?

StevenAg03
10-28-2002, 01:21 PM
it tests to see if all the cylindars are firing....when you put the testlight into the spark plug wire it should change the idle of the motor....

Chadnutz
10-28-2002, 01:47 PM
WHEN YOU GROUND OUT THE SPARK PLUG THE ENERGY WILL GO TO THE BATTERY INSTEAD OF THE SPARK PLUG. THEN YOU WILL NOT GET COMBUSTION IN THE CYLINDER THAT YOU ARE TESTING

StevenAg03
10-28-2002, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by Chadnutz
WHEN YOU GROUND OUT THE SPARK PLUG THE ENERGY WILL GO TO THE BATTERY INSTEAD OF THE SPARK PLUG. THEN YOU WILL NOT GET COMBUSTION IN THE CYLINDER THAT YOU ARE TESTING



are you trying to point out that when you put the test light in the top of the wire that the cylindar wont fire....if so, thats the point....he is wondering if all cylindars are firing as it is....

BigRedFord04
10-28-2002, 03:48 PM
actually...that wasnt the intention of the test i was wanting to do, but will kill two birds w/ one stone. I was pretty sure that I'm getting fire on all cylinders, but was going to pull plug wires as per Mike's suggestion to see if one cylinder wasnt getting fuel (i.e. bad injector). That test will allow me to determine if it is really a bad wire as well. Thx for the suggestion and explanation.

froader03
10-30-2002, 11:02 PM
blah, blah, blah... to check if you're getting fire all the way around spray something as close to the heads as you can. if it evaporates immediately, you're good. if it takes the heat from the cylinders around it to burn it off, you're not getting anything.

BigRedFord04
10-31-2002, 09:51 PM
Today I wrenched on the truck for a few hours instead of going to class, heres what I accomplished. Disconnected the battery to reset the computer in case this was causing any problems. No fix. Checked wires thoroughly and firing order. No visible damages, firing order correct. Pulled the #1 wire off and it didnt change how the truck ran at all. Put that wire back on and pulled #2 wire...ran sh¡ttier. So...pulled #1 plug, its wet (appears oil soaked) and shiny, almost like it hasnt been firing. Pulled a couple more plugs and they were carbon coated so they had obviously been firing in comparision. Did the old screwdriver in the wire trick and the wire IS firing, but they're getting replaced (warranty) tomorrow anyway. Probably going to try to replace that plug too, but when I replaced them the 1st time, the plug on that cylinder was the worst looking one (oil coated and such). Then pulled the driver's side injectors and Mike helped test them, all seem to be working. Visually cleaned them off and put it all back together, still runs sh¡tty. WHAT ELSE??? Someone suggested a flat lobe on the cam. Rings on that cylinder would make sense for the amt of oil on the plug. I'm truely lost now. Thanks for the help today Mike, tell the woman I'm sorry for making your late and it isnt a reason not to give it up. :D

StevenAg03
10-31-2002, 10:28 PM
hey austin, if you are gonna be in town this weekend you can come by my place and we can put a compression tester on it. that will tell you if you have burnt valve or not.


let me know...

BigRedFord04
11-04-2002, 02:10 AM
Saturday I replaced my plug wires, brand new Accel 8.8mm's warranty thru Advance. That seemed to help a lot. I took it out on the highway, hesitation was almost completely gone and what was left of it I mistakenly attributed to the exhaust leak...so...in thinking that i had fixed my truck I decided to head to Dallas....bad idea....I got to Waco where I stopped to pee. When i got back to the truck I thought I smelled oil burning, so i popped the hood and the entire driver's side wheel well was covered in oil, along w/ the driver's side valve cover and a lot of the firewall. Checked the oil and there was barely anything on the stick. I opened the air filter box (which sits on the fender well) and found that the breather element is completely gone, my K&N AIR filter was completely soaked in 10W-30, and for the most part the filter box was full of oil. So i found a VatoZone, filled up the oil, bought an air filter, put it all back together and made my way to Dallas.....smoking the whole way :(. On the way back today I had similar results; lost a quart of oil per hour, smoked a lot, and got a lot of funny stares from people as they went by with smoke coming from the side of my hood. I made it back, and other than the fact that it smokes, the truck pretty much runs the same. I know the PCV valve can cause oil in the breather, but not this much, and its good anyway. Compression tester will go on it this week sometime and I expect to find a lacking on cylinder 1 (or 5, depending on how you look at it). I've been told by quite a few people its a bad valve/burnt valve/stuck valve...what all does this entail to fix? Would it be best to just have a complete valve job done and have the heads machined/reworked? What would I be looking at spending on that? Now taking recommendations for good shops, not necessarily in town, but people that do GOOD work. Thx

mark
11-04-2002, 07:38 AM
I am afaraid that the symptoms you describe suggest excessive crankcase pressure. The oil is comming through the crancase breather, not the PCV valve. This is usually a problem with piston sealing which a leak down pressure check would confirm.

A leakdown test is similar to a compression check, except compressed air is used to pressurize the piston at TDC and the relative pressure drop is measured after a period of time. This has the advantage of locating the problem by noting where the pressurized air is escaping. For example, bubbles in the coolant would indicate a cracked head. Air escaping from the exhaust or intake indicate a valve problem. Or in your case, I would imagine you would find air escaping from the dipstick tube or crankcase breather.

Good Luck.
Mark

eight
11-04-2002, 10:59 AM
A bad/burnt/stuck valve would not cause the oil to blow out like yours is doing. Sounds kind of like maybe your rings stuck bad or you burnt a hole in a piston.

I agree with everything Mark said.

froader03
11-04-2002, 02:04 PM
I think we should start a lottery... draw up squares and sell them for like $5 a pop... proceeds going to the club chilifest fund of course. I've got my money on a krappy piston and/or ring by reason of detonation on #1. too much pressure killed the top ring and maybe cracked the land. this can lead to nasty blowby and/or cylinder wall scores. with no extra crankcase ventilation we have proven old man mark's theory correct. damn. when you first started having this problem I really didn't think it would have gone this far. sorry man.

Fredo
11-04-2002, 02:24 PM
sorry to hear that man....here ya go...

BigRedFord04
11-04-2002, 04:22 PM
To Mark's comments:

I have seemed to notice that the oil dipstick doesnt like to stay in the hole in the block and there was oil coming out of it, I just credited it to the mounting bracket being disconnected after installing headers. I tried plugging the breather element and it would blow the PCV valve out of the valve cover within 30 seconds which does show a buildup of pressure, i'm just not sure how much build up would be considered "normal". If that is the case, wouldn't a compression test give a false hope that it is a valve by not reading full compression because it is leaking thru the rings instead of a valve? Shop recommendations? Should I pull the head??

eight
11-04-2002, 05:13 PM
It should never blow the pcv valve out of the hole. When you do a compression test and find a low cylinder, squirt some oil into it. If it's a burnt valve or a hole in the piston, compression will hardly be changed, if it's bad rings the compression will go up to about normal.


My money's on a hole in the piston.

BigRedFord04
11-04-2002, 05:46 PM
I've never found any vacuum leak and believe me, I've been over/under/around/inside that engine compartment countless times in the past month. If it were a "huge" vacuum leak I'd imagine it would be easy to find, they do make a lot of noise. So, my wishful thinkin' says "piss on that idea". How would any of that contribute to a hole in the piston anyway? If it were hitting the valves wouldnt i have heard loud piston slapping? Rings I could understand, just dont want to :(

And since you're all putting money on this, how abouts everyone putting money towards helping to pay to fix this. :D :D

eight
11-04-2002, 06:36 PM
Yea, a vacuum leak would be hard to miss. A vacuum leak will make the cylinder its closest to run lean. Lean fire burns hotter. It can burn hot enough to burn a hole in the piston. I guess a partly clogged injector could do the same thing, but you tested them, all good I guess.

Pull the head. It's a bitch on those engines.

mark
11-05-2002, 07:34 AM
Originally posted by BigRedFord04
To Mark's comments:

I tried plugging the breather element and it would blow the PCV valve out of the valve cover within 30 seconds which does show a buildup of pressure, i'm just not sure how much build up would be considered "normal".

If that is the case, wouldn't a compression test give a false hope that it is a valve by not reading full compression because it is leaking thru the rings instead of a valve?
1. There should be no build up of pressure because the PCV valve should allow enough vacuum to scavenge any blow by. If there is not enough vacuum, or too much blow by, pressure will escape through the breather or the dipstick. To see if you have too much blow by, make sure the PCV is working, then pull the breather line. You should feel vacuum when you put a finger over the breather hole. If you get enough pressure to leak past your finger or out the dipstick, you have too much blow by.

2. This is why I recommend a leak down test in addition to a compression test. The compression test narrows down the problem cylinder, the leak down test shows you the problem.

-Mark

BigRedFord04
11-05-2002, 12:44 PM
Well its lookin' like a pretty nice day, anyone know where i can get a leak down tester? Going to pick up Steve's compression tester after class and see what that tells me. Thx everyone.

froader03
11-05-2002, 04:25 PM
when did this officially start being a problem? just out of curiousity because you were ROTM and although you didn't roll you have had one of the overall ****tier times with your rig lately. first post was oct. 15 and I know that was close to the time you got nominated. I think the curse is back. anyways... congratulations matt and jimmy!

BigRedFord04
11-05-2002, 09:37 PM
I've noticed the oily breather filter for a while now, but it was now where near as bad as it is now. It just started running ****ty the day I drove back from our last llano trip.

fbronco86
11-05-2002, 10:31 PM
alright i used to have two engines my my bronco that did the oil blowing thing. Out of the dipstick PCV just about everyplace. but one thing is for sure the motor started and ran smooth. I have been told the spark plugs austin that you are using are pos.

BigRedFord04
11-05-2002, 10:31 PM
I called Vilas Motor Works earlier. Three or four people recommended them at work today and said they do good work. The guy told me if i brought them my heads it was $100 just for them to take them apart and find out whats wrong, valves, check trueing, for cracks, etc...then it would be at the most $250 depending on what all they have to replace (valves, valve guides, springs, etc), and they would restore it to factory specs. This didnt seem TOO bad but what can y'all say from experience?? Still looking for shop recommendations.

BigRedFord04
11-05-2002, 10:33 PM
Originally posted by fbronco86
alright i used to have two engines my my bronco that did the oil blowing thing. Out of the dipstick PCV just about everyplace. but one thing is for sure the motor started and ran smooth. I have been told the spark plugs austin that you are using are pos.
All of that helps me NONE. Did you ever find out what was wrong w/ the motors? I've had these plugs for more than 3 years and they've always burned kleen, besides, they have lifetime warranty and for a $50 set of plugs...FREE always sounds good.

Chadnutz
11-05-2002, 11:24 PM
Have you ever had water in the motor? Possibly even if the truck kept running?

Landon and myself both have had good luck with Vilas.

aggielr
11-06-2002, 01:41 AM
i had the head on my jeep done there, and picked up the set we put on nikki's blazer, the $100 is for disassymbly, cleaning, dipping, checking for cracks and all the general bs, some people told me they took forever and blah blah blah, but they had mine done in 2 days ready to put back on, with nikki's, one of the old ones was cracked, so we just bought the new ones they had there, i would suggest them, even the 100 for checkin and cleanin is worth it, if your goin to pull them anyway

JB
11-06-2002, 01:53 AM
The Napa/machine shop in bryan told me $35 a head to clean, and check for cracks. I thought that was a damn good price, so if your saying $100 is a good deal, maybe they miss quoted me.:confused:

Fredo
11-06-2002, 02:21 AM
Originally posted by JBrown89
The Napa/machine shop in bryan told me $35 a head to clean, and check for cracks. I thought that was a damn good price, so if your saying $100 is a good deal, maybe they miss quoted me.:confused:

are you serious? those guys are pathetic. I don't think they have the sense to poor piss out of a boot, much less redo a set of heads. :rolleyes:

Broncocustom
11-06-2002, 08:25 AM
The NAPA in Bryan sucks. Stay away from them. They messed up some axle shafts for Troy. When Scott to the Toy engine there to get cleaned and bored they gave it back to him all finished but some how did not notice that one of the cylinders had a long crack init.

Jackasic
11-06-2002, 09:03 AM
I have had good luck with Mark at NAPA machine. I think the key is talking to him and staying with in their relm of experiance, i.e. V8's. Sorry to here Scott had a bad experiance, but i have had problems with Villas also.

Word to the wise, both can probably do the job, but they are only as good as the high school drop out they have working for them. Good employies are hard to find and make all the difference.

The only shop I trust fully is Eaker Performance. They are a little more, but they are perfectionists. Talk to Johnathan and tell him I sent you. they don't do their own machine work, but they sent it to a reputable shop and check it ont he way out and in. It will be right when you get it back.

BigRedFord04
11-06-2002, 12:41 PM
I talked to Johnathan at Eaker, he said they send all their machining work to either Vilas or Harrison machine shop, all they would do at Eaker is pull them off, which i plan on doing. Tried to call Harrison but no answer. Compression test today.

Jackasic
11-06-2002, 12:45 PM
there you go. you still need to doa leak down to fing out what the real problem is.

JB
11-06-2002, 01:18 PM
Where is Eaker Performance?

BigRedFord04
11-06-2002, 01:20 PM
Phone book says:

2210 Maloney Av.
Bryan

BigRedFord04
11-06-2002, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by eight
Why do you think the problem is in the heads?

$350 to rebuild both heads seems pretty good to me.
Well...if its a stuck/burnt valve, last time i checked, the valves are in the heads...am i missing something? Basically....its hopefull thinking that its not the piston, rings or block. And they told me $250 at the most for both.

BigRedFord04
11-06-2002, 01:37 PM
This kinda goes along with what you're thinkin' i think Ryan, this is off of the www.ford-trucks.com forum:

"I had a '93 with the same problem on a road trip. I thought it was a burnt valve also. I blew a hole in the on the outside edge of the piston just above the rings. The piece fell down into the cylinder & scored the hell out of it. Long story short, needed a new short block."

:( :( :(

eight
11-06-2002, 04:42 PM
That's exactly what I'm thinking.


A burnt or stuck valve can NOT pressurize the crankcase.

fbronco86
11-06-2002, 05:11 PM
Hey ryan i am gonna have to disagree with you on that one. A valve can cause that to happen. The valve seals could be worn out and blow by coming threw the vavle seal. They would put the pressure right into the valve cover area. And my old motor used to blow oil out of the valve cover breather. it leaked more oil out the valve cover than it burned.

BigRedFord04
11-06-2002, 05:45 PM
My original thoughts were similar to what Mike is describing...valve stuck open causing the compression stroke to compress the entire valve cover, and since the breather tube comes out on the side i believed there to be a bad valve, it would just be pushing the oil that lubes the upper head out that breather, and also could be compressing down the runners that lead up to the top of the head.

BUT...

I did the compression test today with the help of Seth, Kate, and Landon stopped by on his way to class to run his mouth :D Here were the results:

#1 - 149 psi
#2 - 173
#3 - 161
#4 - 159
#5 - 35
#6 - 169
#7 - 165
#8 - 179

Adding a little oil to #5 then retesting compression brought it up to 58 or so. Bad ring? Can anyone let me borrow a compressor and valves i could do a leak down test on before I start to pull the head? Anyone got a driveway they dont need for a little while i could possibly borrow?

eight
11-06-2002, 05:57 PM
How much clearance do you think there would have to be between the valve stem and the guide to allow that much air to get by? It's only a few thousanths of an inch and the pressure is just exhaust pressure, not combustion pressure. I doubt enough could get by so that the pcv system could not handle it.

There should not be a problem even if there are no seals on the exhaust valves. Intake valve seals keep oil from being sucked into the head. Exhaust valve seals keep oil from leaking into the head. Those rubber seals are not intended to seal against hot exhaust gases. I rebuilt 2 honda atvs and they don't even have exhaust valve seals.

How does the pressure get into the valve cover area? There are passages for the oil pumped into the heads to drain back into the crankcase. Crankcase pressure goes up through them and out the pcv valve or the breather. Mike probably had a fair amount of blow-by from worn rings.

And what would any of this have to do with a valve being burnt or stuck?

BigRedFord04
11-06-2002, 06:04 PM
I'm probably thinking wrong on how the valves are put together and work then. I see my mistake now though. I was thinking that the valves have openings into the top of the head but now realize that they just go to the ports, which, like you said, goes back into the intake or out the exhaust. What do you think of my test results?

eight
11-06-2002, 06:13 PM
There isn't much of a point in doing a leak down test. Your gonna have to pull that head off.

With only that much of a rise in compression when the oil was added, it's probably not rings. It would be unlikely for bad rings to cause that low of pressure anyway.

If it's a hole in the piston, I can tell you a way to fix it without pulling the motor that will save you from having to get a short block or a rebuild but only if the cylinder wall is still good. Maybe even help you with it.

JB
11-07-2002, 12:28 AM
Originally posted by BigRedFord04
My original thoughts were similar to what Mike is describing...valve stuck open causing the compression stroke to compress the entire valve cover, and since the breather tube comes out on the side i believed there to be a bad valve, it would just be pushing the oil that lubes the upper head out that breather, and also could be compressing down the runners that lead up to the top of the head.

BUT...

I did the compression test today with the help of Seth, Kate, and Landon stopped by on his way to class to run his mouth :D Here were the results:

#1 - 149 psi
#2 - 173
#3 - 161
#4 - 159
#5 - 35
#6 - 169
#7 - 165
#8 - 179

Adding a little oil to #5 then retesting compression brought it up to 58 or so. Bad ring? Can anyone let me borrow a compressor and valves i could do a leak down test on before I start to pull the head? Anyone got a driveway they dont need for a little while i could possibly borrow?


If it would only be 1-2 days, you can do it at my house, not a huge driveway, but it would do, and I have some tools and shat.

BigRedFord04
11-07-2002, 12:35 AM
I have a feeling it may be a little longer than that. Hensel has been kind enough to offer his place. Gonna get it strapped over there tomorrow afternoon and get started on taking the upper intake apart before i have to go to work. I'll keep y'all updated on what I find. Let me know John if you find those injector caps.

BigRedFord04
11-08-2002, 01:01 PM
got the truck strapped over to Hensel's (thanks Nick) yesterday (i think?) and started workin' on it. got the upper intake taken off before i had to go to work. worked on it after work from 900-115am...got the entire wiring harness taken off the motor...all vacuum lines are out of the way. lower intake bolts all broken loose. driver's side valve cover taken off..VERY clean inside. the valve springs on cylinder #5 still seemed like they pulled the valves back well...couldnt see anything wrong thus far. going to the store later to pick up the special tool to disconnect ford fuel lines from the fuel rail and then i can pull the lower intake. I had to pull the distributor and really want to turn the motor over w/ the head still on just to see if the valves are moving (i.e. flat spot in the cam ? ) but dont know how much of a bitch it might be to reset the timing. any suggestions there? if the #5 cylinder is at the top of the stroke i'm going to have to turn it over anyway to see the whole cylinder. Is it really that big of a deal? After the intake is of its just head bolts and i'll see what i can see. i dont know how long i'll be over there today but if anyone wants to come you're welcome. 512.468.1604

BigRedFord04
11-08-2002, 04:45 PM
i just got the driver's side head off...the piston on cylinder #5 is missing a piece about 1" long by <1/8" wide along the outside edge of the piston. gotta evaluate the financial situation before i progress anymore. would like to at least pull the motor if possible (although i know its not necessary) and re-ring all 8. Cylinder #5 needs some honing b.c. of very slight grooves, but i dont think it actually needs to be bored out. If money permits, should i try to have the heads redone also? 127K miles. I need a beer. :( :confused: :(

BigRedFord04
11-10-2002, 08:20 PM
Ok...i've got a few different options I'm looking at and would like to see what everyone thinks of them. I want to basically rebuild the motor which means taking it out.
1st Problem: Need somewhere to do it that has proper equipment and where i could leave my truck for a little while. Jimmy M. has offered a 1-ton come-along so i just need somewhere w/ really tall doors and something i can lift from.
2nd Problem: What all i need to do? Obviously all gaskets and the bad piston. Rings, it appears are only sold in sets so I might as well use them all. If I have to take the rod off to take disconnect the bad piston, i might as well replace that bearing, and i know its best to replace all rod bearings together so why not, right? Once i get that far couldnt hurt to replace the main bearings. I'd really like to have the heads redone, and it should be cheaper than quoted just cuz it doesnt appear there's a lot wrong w/ them. Should i replace the pushrods and lifters? The lifters are surprisingly expensive ($150 for all 16) and i'm guessing its b.c. they're hydraulic. Is there anything at all I'm missing?
3rd Problem: Should I try to do it myself or have Vilas do it? I've never rebuilt an engine before and would basically be going by what the Haynes tells me. I read about all the really precise tolerances that all the bearings and rings have to be within' today and have no clue how i'd go about checking that. If i were to do it, would anyone with experience here be willing to help?

i REALLY NEED suggestions here. i'd prefer to have Vilas assemble the motor and i just pull it and put it in myself, then i can blame someone other than myself if it f*cks up. I dont really trust a short block from Ho'Reilly b.c. i've heard the quality is shoddy and that its rare to get a long time out of them, which i need b.c. i plan on keeping this truck for a long time. Also, rebuilding looks to be cheaper anywayThanks to everyone who has helped thus far (esp. residents of the Hensel house) and thank you in advance for any help to come.

-Austin

eight
11-10-2002, 08:49 PM
Throw in a new cam while you're in there. Better power and mileage. For the pushrods, just make sure they're straight.

Crane Powermax for Computerized Engine- $147 with lifters Jegs pt # 270-364112

StevenAg03
11-10-2002, 08:53 PM
if your gonna replace all that stuff and leave it stock, you might as well get a premium long block and slap it back in. i paid like 600 or so for mine. and it is pretty easy to do. if you had a shop i could help you do it.

StevenAg03
11-10-2002, 08:59 PM
for a premium long block from city motor supply in dallas, it is $845 for the motor and a $300 core. they are the ones i have heard alot of good things about and that is where i got my motor from. the warrenty on them is 1 month 1000 miles if its in a truck and 12 months 12000 miles in a car. before you wonder why its so low in a truck is cause they have to remember that some of these motors go in work trucks that get abused all the time. the only problem i had with my motor is i burned up the valves in the number 8 cylindar. this was due to my failure to connect the equalizer tube on the back of the motor. this happened at 8 months and about 8000 miles. they gave me replacement heads for free with the exception of core on the burned up one.


if it were me i would go with a premium long block

Rex
11-10-2002, 09:13 PM
Rebuild kits are not that expensive. Summit has a rebuild kit for 269.00 that includes 6 pistons, main, cam, and rod bearings, all gaskets, freeze plugs, oil pump, rings, plastigage and assembly lube. Or you could probably get one cheaper from PAW that didn't have all the pistons. I rebuild my first car engine (i've rebuild a few motorcycle engines) this summer which was a Buick 225 V-6 and I had no problems with it, only resource i needed was how to torque down the head bolts. My dad helped a lot, but a book or something would probably be enough. You might even be able to find a write up on the internet. All we did was hone the cylinders and it runs fine. Might as well have a three angle done on the heads too, i had the heads done on the v-6 and it was $10 per seat for hardened seats (which you don't need) and $35 a head for labor at a place in Dallas. :D

Krawler68
11-10-2002, 09:14 PM
900 bucks is a lot of money... I may need a long block in my EB too... I will give everyone the details later tonight or tomorrow morning...have a lot of pics, so I'll start another thread.

Rex
11-10-2002, 09:16 PM
Just remember if you decide to rebuild it yourself: lots of assembly lube on everything, keep everything as clean as you can, don't hit the crank with the rods, check ring spacing with a feeler guage and torque everything to specs.

BigRedFord04
11-10-2002, 09:21 PM
I had fogotten that you can get cam kits that come w/ lifters. I'd been wanting a minor cam for a while and the price I can get thru work on a cam kit isnt too bad. i might have to do that.

$900 for a new long block is A LOT more than i'm looking @ spending on this.

the part i was particularly worried about in doing it all myself are the clearances and such...my haynes has all the torque specs, but what else do i need to know to do it RIGHT?

Broncocustom
11-10-2002, 09:44 PM
To check the tolerances you can get a gauge at the autostore called something like plastigauge. All it is a small thread of plastic that you put it in between the bearings and the crank and torque the bolts down, then you undo the bolts and you check how wide the thread is compared to a chart. This works to find out what the clearances are when you can not use a feeler gauge.

StevenAg03
11-10-2002, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by Krawler68
900 bucks is a lot of money... I may need a long block in my EB too... I will give everyone the details later tonight or tomorrow morning...have a lot of pics, so I'll start another thread.


it would be closer to 700 for the one for your bronco dougie...

Krawler68
11-11-2002, 08:42 AM
Austin quoted me 930 from O'reilly's... My poor bronco's motor has issues... I still ahven't been able to download pics...hopefully I'll get them up tonight.

Doug

BigRedFord04
11-11-2002, 02:03 PM
Vilas told me they could check and clean my entire motor, all new bearings, replace the bad piston, re-ring all 8, check the heads, etc, etc...all for about $150 (i provide parts), and the more disassembled the motor is when i take it in the cheaper it will be for me. So, that being said, i need to gather parts, and pull the motor. depending on how fast i can get parts and find a way to pull my motor, i might be able to get it all back together next weekend. I'll keep y'all updated. If anyone can help in any way i'll love you forever. i'm paying hensel w/ a big tittied blonde my g/f is bringin' down next time she comes...might be able to work out something similar for anyone else who's interested :D

ClassicJunk
11-11-2002, 02:06 PM
Hey, when did I become the TAMOR pimnptress?

froader03
11-11-2002, 02:12 PM
sweet... just let me know ahead of time so I can kick all other prospects to the curb for the weekend. :D

ClassicJunk
11-11-2002, 02:18 PM
It'll be next sem sometime... but, we have her in the reserves now. We tattoed "Jason's b!tch" on her butt just in case she got away

BigRedFord04
11-11-2002, 02:33 PM
"...in any event....." -Doug :rolleyes:

Krawler68
11-11-2002, 02:40 PM
quickly translated as... "what you're saying is of NO consequence to ANYONE involved in this conversation other than yourself, and I could not care any less about what you are babbling about..."

just a rough translation, but I think that was what I meant when I used to say "In any event"...

In any event...

Doug

ClassicJunk
11-11-2002, 04:20 PM
are you talking?

Krawler68
11-11-2002, 04:25 PM
In any event... I was working on my EB this weekend... it's really messed up... :D

ClassicJunk
11-11-2002, 04:35 PM
to quote DOUG himself
:flipoff2:

Krawler68
11-11-2002, 04:36 PM
In any event thank you for this opportunity to pad my way past your worthless Boytoy...

ClassicJunk
11-11-2002, 04:38 PM
ha, that makes it all ok. Here's another chance.

Krawler68
11-11-2002, 04:43 PM
chance for what?

BigRedFord04
11-11-2002, 05:22 PM
IN ANY EVENT....STFU!!

this is not the kitchen.

BigRedFord04
11-11-2002, 05:33 PM
i can do whatever i want...this is MY thread, fag

ClassicJunk
11-11-2002, 05:36 PM
Originally posted by BigRedFord04
IN ANY EVENT....STFU!!

this is not the kitchen.

*ahem*

BigRedFord04
11-11-2002, 05:38 PM
:annoyed:

Seth
11-11-2002, 07:18 PM
Hey Austin call my cell when you are working on your truck ...esp at night after tues....I should have plenty of extra time.
Seth

BigRedFord04
11-18-2002, 02:06 PM
Worked quite a bit this past weekend. Got an engine hoist from a customer that came into Ho'Reillys buying a sh¡tload of Edelbrock stuff for a small-block chevy...he even delivered it to Hensel's (4 hrs after he said he would, but hell...at least he showed up). We got the motor out Friday nite after ~10hrs of f*cking with stuff all day. It sat on a stand saturday and sunday, i got everything disassembled as much as I could then with Brett's help took it to Vilas this morning. they're going to clean and vat everything today or tomorrow then call me back with a more precise estimate on what all i need now that they have it in front of them. I ordered a Crane CompuCam last week and that should be here in time for reassembly. Very anxious to get this all done, hopefully in time to be able to go home for thxgiving.

1012

BigRedFord04
12-06-2002, 02:02 AM
I finally got "the call" from Vilas today. My motor is ready to be picked up. Bored .040. New pistons, rings, rods, bearings (main, rod and cam), new cam, high volume oil pump, timing set, short block assembled w/ all new freeze plugs. Heads milled, all new valves, seats, guides, freeze plugs, etc. It was originally supposed to be done last friday or maybe this monday but then they realized that they still needed to turn the crank (.010 rods/.010 mains) and that added 3 days b.c. of scheduling w/ the guy that does the assembly. Anyway...it'll be goin' all back together this weekend @ hensel's if anyone wants to stop by. i'll be workin' on it 'til dark tomorrow then all day saturday 'til its done. wish me luck, hopefully all goes well.

1031

crawlingno5
12-06-2002, 02:14 AM
this was the post i was waiting for. we finally get our driveway back.

JB
12-06-2002, 04:29 PM
maybe not as soon as you think after today:D

let me kwno when you are going to be working on it again, and if you need to take the motor back, ive got a truck

ClassicJunk
12-08-2002, 02:21 PM
He was out there til 2am this morning.... He should be back at Skinny Jason's to work on it after work (after 6:00)... Thanks to John for coming out and allowing me to not do anything all day :D

froader03
12-09-2002, 02:05 AM
big red started about 10 minutes ago.

BigRedFord04
12-10-2002, 12:56 PM
BigRed lives again! It took some doing. I got everything ready to go and went to fire it up and the damn batteries were dead from the 12V light i used for the entire project. We hooked up Hensel's truck w/ some cables and let it charge for a while and then it came alive. After the 1st firing we there was a pretty sizeable water leak...did some checkin' and found that the thermostat had fallen out of the groove it mounts in in the water outlet housing making it so it couldnt seal all the way. 30 mins later and a little wrenching had it fixed, sealed and ready to be fired up. Drove it home shortly thereafter. Did the proper cam break in. Now i'm having to get used to driving it again. With the new cam and very large (HUGE) exhaust leak it sounds pretty fearsome echoing off buildings around campus. :D Gotta change the oil once i reach 100 miles then again @ 500 and after that i'm good to go all out.

Jackasic
12-10-2002, 01:04 PM
Good to hear it is up and running again. What did you decide to do about the cracked exhaust?

BigRedFord04
12-10-2002, 01:10 PM
well...since while i was driving around yesterday and noticed that my inspection is due this month, i think i might try JB Weld :D...definately dont have the $$ to pay to have it fixed :rolleyes:...gotta go give plasma today to pay for gas.

1034

davido
12-10-2002, 01:59 PM
Can it be welded?

ClassicJunk
12-10-2002, 02:07 PM
It can be welded.. it's gonna be a lil hard to get to, but its doable. If I'm not mistaken you could hit it from underneath, as its just behind the header.. if that makes sense.. if not, I plead "stupid girl"

BigRedFord04
12-11-2002, 12:24 PM
yeah, it can be welded, but all the other previous welds need to be cleaned up 1st so that i can hope the next one wont break too.

BigRedFord04
12-15-2002, 02:13 AM
I changed the oil for the 1st time today...125 miles. Its been really nice having it running, but its been kinda sluggish from the low end. I had a couple of options that it could be, timing, intake leak, not enough exhaust backpressure b.c. of the leaks. Mr. Krabs fixed up the exhaust leak for the most part a few days ago and it still did it so that problem was ruled out. I was checking the timing last nite but was interrupted by an electrical fire (:rolleyes: ) at the fuse holder for my electric fans. I spent a couple hours rewiring that and still havent gotten it right b.c. i keep burning up solenoids. While i was changing the oil tonite though i decided to mess w/ the timing and found that the hesitation got better by retarding the timing. i got it set about right :rolleyes: and its run badass all nite. i'll be putting a timing light on it again tomorrow to double check my earballed timing job. last problem is to figure out what i can do about the fans. I need a continuous duty 12V switchable solenoid that can maintain a 30amp load. Any suggestions? thx.

Chadnutz
12-15-2002, 10:22 AM
Electric fans are THE DEVIL.

robertf03
12-15-2002, 12:06 PM
use a relay. go to a junkyard and look under the hood of a modern EFI car or truck. there will be a relay box, grab one that says 30 amp on it and maybe take the relay box too.

BigRedFord04
12-15-2002, 12:23 PM
Originally posted by eight
One of the starer solenoids like ford uses on the passenger side fender of a diesel should work. I'm not sure if the gas trucks use the same thing.

Did you do anything to the computer to adjust for the new cam? You usually need a custom chip, fuel pressure regulator, or bigger injectors.
A diesel glow plug solenoid is what overheated most recently. I dont want to just use a relay b.c. for some reason, if i use a relay i'll burn up switches. I did it once this summer and was told that i need to use a solenoid to keep it from happening.

No, i didnt do anything special to the computer. The cam I got is made to work with the computer. Although, I do have a JET chip.

BigRedFord04
12-15-2002, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by eight
Yea, you should be fine with the cam stuff. But just to check, do you know how to check if it is running rich or lean by using a jumper in the OBDII plug? I forgot how. That Haynes manual should tell you.

I'm not sure if the starter solenoid is any bigger than a glow plug solenoid. The starter solenoid on the fender of a diesel is just there to power the starter solenoid on the starter. My jeep has the actual starter solenoid on the fender. If it's made to handle 150 amps for a while it should handle the 30 amps continuosly. But I don't see why you are having problems with only 30 amps.
My truck is a `95, OBD I. I dont understand either why only 30 amps is causing this much trouble.

Chadnutz
12-15-2002, 01:10 PM
I had to split each fan up onto its own 20-30 amp relay and inline fuse because I kept melting fuse housings and blowing relays. By kept, I mean like 5-6 times it really screwed me over...

BigRedFord04
12-15-2002, 07:22 PM
i think i got it figured out...Borg Warner p/n S55 is a continuous duty switchable solenoid rated up to 80 amps. it looks just like a generic ford/warn solenoid. wire power in from the battery, out to the fans, and a wire to the switch to activate it. we'll see if this one really holds up. its the 4th different p/n solenoid i've put on it. anyway...truck still runs like a champ, now i'm lookin' into new rear shackles to hopefully eliminate axle wrap and keep from breaking u-joints. plans, plans, plans...