Project Mongo

[BMFScout]

Is that Scotti's??! ;)

[jerryg79]

good lord that thing is scary. I sure hope mine doesn't turn out that tall. Does he at least have a V8 kludged together in there?

Yeah that was a nice four runner that someone totally fecked up and slapped some big tires on, its a totally different scenario then yours :flipoff2:

[CRaSHnBuRN]

for one thing, I don't think mine quite falls into the nice category. Hopefully mine will be a little shorter than that as well.

[CRaSHnBuRN]

I was at the mall today and decided to grab the airsoft pellets for balancing my tires at rugged outdoors. The guy looked at me like I was nuts when I told him how much I needed. He really acted confused when I told him what they were for. But he cut me a deal and gave me them for 50% of the listed cost

[Graystroke]

why air soft? why not led shot?

[robertf03]

or raisins

[TxCruzr]

There have been people that have had problems with lead shot falling apart and turning into powder after awhile. Just let someone else air your tires and inhale that lead and it may be alright :D

I would actually use cheeze puffs :gigem:

[CRaSHnBuRN]

marshmellows have more mass, could be interesting when the tire heats up

[RCcola55]

those iroks are gonna take about 3000 pellets each

[CRaSHnBuRN]

thats what I got. He looked at me funny when I asked for 12000 pellets.

[CRaSHnBuRN]

okay, I guess I'm throwing in the towel on finishing this thing before school starts. Over the entire break I've been getting screwed on getting time off from work. In return, I was told I would get more time at the end of the break. Not a big deal, until now. Our old manager left, the assistant manager took over his job, and promptly went on vacation skiing (he has worked less than 5 days in the last month as it is). The new assistant manager pissed off the other night audit guy, so he quit. So I get to pick up the slack. I just brought the new assistant manager to tears yelling at her about needing the time off. I don't understand why its so hard for someone else to do a night shift for once. And my rear springs still are not here. Things keep getting better all the time.

[william_ace]

i think they will be getting a piggy back ride to cs with my roommate tomorrow.

[Shaggy]

i have lots of f150 springs if you need some sooner

[CRaSHnBuRN]

he should have them here friday, but if not, I may be forced to take you up on that

[CRaSHnBuRN]

better pic of the front hanger. 1 inch drop, 2 inch forward

http://tamor.us/members-rigs/albums/Build-up/100_0055.sized.jpg

tap and ported the steering box for hydro assist

http://tamor.us/members-rigs/albums/Build-up/100_0065.sized.jpg

outboarded shackle mounts. I'm gonna build cleaner ones down the road when I have more time and I'm sure this is the length I want to stick with

http://tamor.us/members-rigs/albums/Build-up/100_0052.sized.jpg

[CRaSHnBuRN]

I need to do something about my brakelines. I'm having the stock front D60 softlines extended by bryan hoes, and will use adapter to connect it to my stock toy hardlines.

But the rear is something different. I'm using rotors and calipers from a late 70s model 3/4 ton chevy. I was going to use the soft lines from the same application, but good lord they want 20 bucks a piece for these things. Surely there is a cheaper solution? Anyone know what size fittings these thing use? Looks like some kinda banjo fitting is stock. I'm using a stainless line left over from a earlier build to go from the frame to the t-fitting

[colman]

are you ever going to come over and get your spacers

[CRaSHnBuRN]

you know what, I forgot you called about them. Either way I have to wait until I get paid to get the cash, so I'll come grab them on friday if thats good for you

[colman]

i will be gone on friday, i will let you know if another one of my roomates comes back into town early enough

[CRaSHnBuRN]

when will you be back?

[DRAGOONRANCH]

Clean fab on the front hangers. Me likum.

[colman]

sunday night, my brother is getting married on saturday

[junior88mj]

chris that gear setup tool you showed sucks to use the one with the bearing disc is a lot easyer to use but is more expensive if your going to try and do it your self buy or make a set of setup bearings by honeing them out so that they slip on and off i can help sence i cant work after breaking my leg at x-mas i'm just sitten around house so just give me a call 979 820 2252 J&P do a good job and are fair on price also

[CRaSHnBuRN]

I'm having J&P do the rear end at least, though I'm a little worried. I dropped it off three days ago, and explained to everyone there at the time that I just wanted the gears swapped out. They said they would be done friday morning at the latest. Called back this afternoon, and they hadn't touched it, and the guy on the phone said he had no idea what was supposed to be done with it :rolleyes: I mean, if you have a stripped down axle housing, and a new set of gears, bearing, shims, and other assorted crap, wouldn't it make sense to put them together?

Junior, thanks for the info. I may call you when I get the time to redo the front.

Bryan hoes is also 2 days behind the latest possible time they quoted me to have a set of rubber brake lines extended.

[CRaSHnBuRN]

sunday night, my brother is getting married on saturday

I'll grab them from you monday afternoon

[CRaSHnBuRN]

One other thing that has surprised me while collecting parts. I've always heard "run domestic stuff, cause you can't get parts for that foreign POS at any old parts store on a saturday afternoon". Well thats a load of ****. I stopped at 3 stores trying to pick up my TREs. Ended up having to order them. Out of curiosity, I checked with 2 of the stores to see if they had the FJ-80 ends I always ran on my toyotas. Both had them in stock. I've also had problems getting my new master cylinder (79 chevy K20), and the lug nuts and studs for my D70.

[colman]

i think i have a master chlinder that would work for you, its new, i never used it. you can check it out when you come to get those spacers

[AggieTJ2007]

its because all of the domestic **** you wanted to use is old and outdated, get with it, either that or you are going to crappy part stores

[CRaSHnBuRN]

napa and advance are the places I go, and the parts are standard stuff.

[CRaSHnBuRN]

need a good source for stainless steel brakelines? speedwaymotors.com has them cheap. I'm using a set of 36" ones to run from the T-fitting (stock one stolen from my toy axle), to my calipers in the back. Even with the conversion fittings, it worked out being alot less than using rubber lines from the parts store. If I had known bryan hoes would have taken so long to rebuild and extend the stock front hoses for my D60, I may have just went with the speedway ones up there as well

[Shaggy]

you take the torch back yet?... less than two weeks and i cant break my lease for another year

[Sharpe]

need a good source for stainless steel brakelines? speedwaymotors.com has them cheap. I'm using a set of 36" ones to run from the T-fitting (stock one stolen from my toy axle), to my calipers in the back. Even with the conversion fittings, it worked out being alot less than using rubber lines from the parts store. If I had known bryan hoes would have taken so long to rebuild and extend the stock front hoses for my D60, I may have just went with the speedway ones up there as well
I have been saying this for a year and a half.

[CRaSHnBuRN]

you take the torch back yet?... less than two weeks and i cant break my lease for another year

the weather has kept me from getting home, but it will be returned next saturday at the latest, and I will pay for the rent on this month like we said. I'll try to get home and get it sooner if possible, but I know I will be home that saturday. Is this okay with you? Sorry its taken so long

[CRaSHnBuRN]

I have been saying this for a year and a half.


really? Never seen you post it.

[CRaSHnBuRN]

finally, I think I will stay away from J&P from now on. Like I said before, they went over their quoted completion time big time. Not a big deal though. Then they called on monday with a story about how there were problems. Set the gears up anway. Called them today, to see if it was done, and they acted pissed I hadn't picked it up yet. They never told me they were done with it? The lady at the front desk said I never left any contact info, even though someone up there somehow knew my number to call me on monday. I just hope I didn't spend my money on a setup thats just gonna destroy itself in a few weeks

[mudtoy67]

Get some marking paint and check it yourself. Also find someone w/ a dial indicator and check the backlash. That way you at least can find any obvious problems before they get bad.

[CRaSHnBuRN]

okay, I just called bryan hoes and they wanted 40+ dollars to extend the stock dodge brakelines that I was told would have been done a week ago. Screw that. Anyone know of a reason not to run the speedway motors stainless steel lines? I didn't really worry about them on the rear, as they just ran along the top of the axle housing, and were static, but worry about whether they will be up to being used on a front axle

[fbronco86]

Get some marking paint and check it yourself. Also find someone w/ a dial indicator and check the backlash. That way you at least can find any obvious problems before they get bad.

Toothpaste works pretty well but you have to use the old skool stuff.

[Graystroke]

why are you worried about running stainless lines? your talking about flex lines right?

[BMFScout]

I've got SS Earl's lines on the front of mine, have for the past 6 years, no problems. Holy **** I just realized that six years have gone by since then. I'm old!!

[CRaSHnBuRN]

why are you worried about running stainless lines? your talking about flex lines right?

yeah, its just that the lines are way cheaper than you find elsewhere (13 bucks for a 36" line), so I'm worried they are really low quality and may fail easily

[Graystroke]

well I'm sure they are goverened by some sactioning body. meaning are they race approved for a league? They sell a lot of circle track and midget racing stuff. I would say go for it..they are probably made in china. But don't let that scare you...a lot of the plants are ISO 9000 and regularly supply automotive parts.

[Reckless]

they should be DOT approved for em to sell em.

[BMFScout]

I would say go for it..they are probably made in china. But don't let that scare you...a lot of the plants are ISO 9000 and regularly supply automotive parts.

We get it Grayson, China is cool. ISO 9000, Viton, Monel, Hastelloy and whatever else cool buzz words I can't think of right now.

[jerryg79]

We get it Grayson, China is cool. ISO 9000, Viton, Monel, Hastelloy and whatever else cool buzz words I can't think of right now.

throw ansi and astm in there for good measure

[colman]

ive got a dial indicator, come by

[agjohn02]

throw ansi and astm in there for good measure


FMVSS

[Reckless]

Ase

[agjohn02]

Ase

thats not a standardization. SAE is, not ASE. ASE is more like a club.:flipoff2:

[Reckless]

I knew it was somthing to that effect

[Graystroke]

fawkers

[DRAGOONRANCH]

thats not a standardization. SAE is, not ASE. ASE is more like a club.:flipoff2:


John, you missed his point entirely. He was tryin to call you an ASS. :flipoff2:

[CRaSHnBuRN]

Okay, got a couple of quick dumb questions here. About how much gear oil would you estimate a D70 will take? Just need a good guess so I know what to pick up on my way out of town saturday morning.

Also, some where on here I heard someone mention a thick dana cover. Thats a stock part, right? How thick is it, and where would you get one? I may need a new cover for my D70 since the fill plug doesn't want to thread back in for some reason. Or I may just weld a plug over the hole, and try to install a new fill plug higher up on the cover.

[AggieTJ2007]

3 quarts maybe 4

[stx4wheeler]

i think a sterling is like 3 or 3.5

[colman]

ask the counter at the parts store when you buy the stuff

[jerryg79]

ask the counter at the parts store when you buy the stuff

The person behind the counter would probably be a little more helpful then the counter itself.

[colman]

wow... that was special i bet it took you a whole 3 seconds to come up with that... ass

[TexTJ209]

The person behind the counter would probably be a little more helpful then the counter itself.


Unless you're at an Autozone.

[agjohn02]

i learned how to use the computers myself at autozone.

[CRaSHnBuRN]

ask the counter at the parts store when you buy the stuff

hell, what do I look like, I'm made of money? I'm buying the stuff at wally world :flipoff2: And like its been stated, all I ever seem to get are blank stares when I ask a question at a parts store.

[Sharpe]

i learned how to use the computers myself at autozone.
When I was building pigpen over the summer a couple of years ago I was in the Vatozone in Kingsville 2-3 times a day. I guess they got tired of wasting time trying to find oddball random **** for me so the manager started letting me look up and go get parts myself. They just build a new Oreilly's there and it is the second best parts store I've ever been to, right after the Napa here in CS.

[CheapJeep]

I think some of the older 1st gen dodge's had a thicker 70 cover, might check that out.

Pretty much every Napa I've been to including the warehouse store off of Hardy down in H-Town have always been really helpful. Out of all the major parts stores they have their **** together the most.

[jerryg79]

wow... that was special i bet it took you a whole 3 seconds to come up with that... ass

that of course being one second longer then it would've taken to proofread

[CRaSHnBuRN]

okay, finally had a chance to get home and get a little more work done. Its kinda hard to get anywhere when you only have one afternoon to work on it every 2 weeks. I just hope the wiring hasn't been destroyed by rats.

[CRaSHnBuRN]

tires on rims - these are sexy looking, just hope the H2s are up to the abuse and don't lose beads constantly

http://tamor.us/members-rigs/albums/Build-up/100_0067.sized.jpg

after spending to much time fabbing a crossmember that would give me a flat belly, but refused to work without cutting out most of the floorboard, I gave up and ordered one from sky mfg.

http://tamor.us/members-rigs/albums/Build-up/100_0077.sized.jpg

and yes, I know one bolt is missing. The nut in the frame is stripped out. I may just weld that plate to the frame, though it will make it more difficult to remove the rest of the crossmember

[CRaSHnBuRN]

Rear D70 with discs and f150 springs - the springs gave me about 2 inches more wheelbase. The rear fenderwells will need to be trimmed a fair amount. The shock mounts are in, but that one shock is just hanging there for mock up purposes in the pic

http://tamor.us/members-rigs/albums/Build-up/100_0075.sized.jpg

[CRaSHnBuRN]

the rear axle is 65 inches wms to wms, and with the H2s the tires tuck in pretty nice

http://tamor.us/members-rigs/albums/Build-up/100_0074.sized.jpg

[DRAGOONRANCH]

Looks pretty trick.

The H2's always look good.

[CRaSHnBuRN]

I still need to put the spacers on the front axle and build the shock mounts before putting on the front tires. You can kinda see how I currently have the hydro assist ram mocked up. One end mounts to a adjustable clamp on the tie rod. The other end has a hiem on it, and will mount to a tower welded to the axle near the driver side spring perch. Mounting it as I have, high and above the tie rod, will allow me to use the full travel and keep the ram out of the rocks. And should I decide to go full high steer, I shouldn't have to remount the ram

http://tamor.us/members-rigs/albums/Build-up/100_0068.sized.jpg

[CRaSHnBuRN]

One thing, because my front axle is several inches forward, my drag link sits a little behind the tie rod at ride hieght. Around 2 inches or so. Will this cause wierd handling on the road? Alot of people with toys move thier steering box forward, but they are running full high steer and need it to keep the tie rod and drag link from hitting each other, a problem I don't have with the crossover. I have the stuff to move the box if needed, but would like to skip it for the time being in order to save some time

http://tamor.us/members-rigs/albums/Build-up/100_0071.sized.jpg

[CRaSHnBuRN]

I still have alot to do at this point. I need to move the radiator to match the body lift, build a new rear driveshaft, finish the front shock mounts, plumb the rest of the brakes, reinstall the gas tank and run new gas lines, finish reaming the steering arm, and fix the vacuum lines and wires the rats ate. Hopefully once that is all done I can get her back here to college station, and finish up the non essentials, like getting the front axle regeared, locking the rear, building a front driveshaft, and cleaning up the D60. If I have time over spring break I may start building rock sliders and bumpers as well

[CRaSHnBuRN]

BTW, would anyone be interested in helping me tow the 4runner back to college station? I would need a truck and a trailer. I don't know if I want the maiden voyage for this thing to be the drive back up here, because I'm sure I will have some little problems crop up. Once I have it up here it will be easier to fix any little problems that may pop up such as death wobble. Its around 80 inches wide, and is in Dime Box, which is about an hour from here. It may be a week or two most likely before I have the time to go get it, but would like to get it here before spring break

[colman]

if you can figure out how to make it narrower to 76.75 i can in a few weeks if not it won't fit on my trailer. which is in round top and dime box is on the way back from there

[CRaSHnBuRN]

well I can leave the spacers off, and that will gain me a few inches, but probably still not that narrow.

[bcolman]

if you can figure out how to make it narrower to 76.75 i can in a few weeks if not it won't fit on my trailer. which is in round top and dime box is on the way back from there

the trailer is in houston because dad took the mule back to fix the front half shaft.

[CRaSHnBuRN]

no pics, but after a month I finally got a chance to work on the POS again. Would have been nice if it hadn't been raining the entire time. I could have finished it this time if my work area hadn't flooded and made me have to stop. The hydro assist is done, all shocks mounted, brakelines run, steering arm fixed, and a bunch of little stuff taken care of. All I have left to do is build a rear driveshaft, remount the gas tank, top off the fluids, and figure out how to fix the rear body mounts that were mangled when the thing was rear ended. If it takes much longer, I may just day **** it and lop the back of the body off behind the wheel wells

[CRaSHnBuRN]

Okay, I move to houston at the begining of June, so I'm gonna quit my job after graduation and take a couple of weeks off to do some fishing and **** like that. By then I should have the little stuff on the 4runner done, so its at least moving, but I want to use the time off to begin the second stage of the build up. This will include regearing and rebuilding the front axle, adding longer studs so I can use the spacers I bought and any other little thing that needs to be done. But the main thing I want to focus on is stuff like bumpers, sliders and a rollcage. Also, a fair amount of fender trimming and sheetmetal relocation (to the trash) may occur

[CRaSHnBuRN]

Like I said earlier, I want to sliders similar to the one below

http://www.offroadsolutions.com/images/products/tacoma/onground3.jpg

But I want to do it a little differently and use a piece of rectangular tubing (2x3) instead of square. One thing I can't decide on is what thickness to go. 3/16s would be the best choice, but will probably be pretty heavy. I thought about doing 1/8, then run a strip on angle iron on corner facing the ground in order to give it a little more strength when I come down on a rock. I don't know if that will really help or be worth it

[agjohn02]

One thing, because my front axle is several inches forward, my drag link sits a little behind the tie rod at ride hieght. Around 2 inches or so. Will this cause wierd handling on the road? Alot of people with toys move thier steering box forward, but they are running full high steer and need it to keep the tie rod and drag link from hitting each other, a problem I don't have with the crossover. I have the stuff to move the box if needed, but would like to skip it for the time being in order to save some time

http://tamor.us/members-rigs/albums/Build-up/100_0071.sized.jpg


question: what happens when you are trying to turn left and the left side of the suspension is at full bump? wont the draglink/pitman arm interfer with the leaf spring?

[CRaSHnBuRN]

now here comes the fun part, what to do about a cage. I ditched the rear seat, and don't plan on running the hard top. The top over the cab area, and a working AC and heater are all I will need for Texas weather.

Since I also moved the rear axle back some, and would like to move it back even more when I link it, the rear fenders will need to be reworked. I also want to move the gas tank to between the rear frame rails to make room for links and to keep it from being a rock anchor. Finally, the rear frame rails, including the rear body mounts are seriously bent out of wack from an accident, so something needs to be done about them

[CRaSHnBuRN]

question: what happens when you are trying to turn left and the left side of the suspension is at full bump? wont the draglink/pitman arm interfer with the leaf spring?

there is more room there than it appears. The angle of the picture is just bad. If its a problem when I test flex it, I'll set my bumpstops to compensate, or if its bad enough, I will relocate the steering box. I have all the stuff to do it, and may do it anyway during my time off

[CRaSHnBuRN]

so here is a crappy pictured done in paint that shows what I'm thinking of doing

http://tamor.us/members-rigs/albums/album262/22_3.sized.jpg

[CRaSHnBuRN]

Cutting the fenders like that in the rear will seriously reduce weight and rear overhang, and it would probably just get dented all to hell anyway

On the tube work, I want to try something new. I want to combine an exo with a internal style cage to give the benefits of both, without the problems with head space or bracing each design has. The rear portion of the cage will be similar to any old truck cage for the most part. The main hoop, or B hoop will run right outside the cab area. The bars will run over the roof, and then go back into the cab right above the top corners of the windshield. This will allow me to brace everything like a normal cage, yet give me plenty of head room.

For the front, I'm not for sure what I'm gonna do yet

The lines on the outside of the bed will area will be similar to sliders, and will hopefully keep the sheetmetal from getting destroyed. They will be tied into the main cage in 3 places, and also provide support for the cut up bedsides

[jerryg79]

so here is a crappy pictured done in paint that shows what I'm thinking of doing

http://tamor.us/members-rigs/albums/album262/22_3.sized.jpg

that's a crappy picture in paint? That's about the best paint artwork i've ever seen.

[CRaSHnBuRN]

yeah, but all I really did was trace it

[jerryg79]

Is this thing still gonna be a daily driver?

[agjohn02]

not a very comfortable one at least

[JeepPhisherman]

Cutting the fenders like that in the rear will seriously reduce weight and rear overhang, and it would probably just get dented all to hell anyway

On the tube work, I want to try something new. I want to combine an exo with a internal style cage to give the benefits of both, without the problems with head space or bracing each design has. The rear portion of the cage will be similar to any old truck cage for the most part. The main hoop, or B hoop will run right outside the cab area. The bars will run over the roof, and then go back into the cab right above the top corners of the windshield. This will allow me to brace everything like a normal cage, yet give me plenty of head room.

For the front, I'm not for sure what I'm gonna do yet

The lines on the outside of the bed will area will be similar to sliders, and will hopefully keep the sheetmetal from getting destroyed. They will be tied into the main cage in 3 places, and also provide support for the cut up bedsides

I've seen a couple of exo-interior cages on TTORA. Don't have links, but they've worked well from what I've read and do what they're designed to do, not be as ugly as exo cages, and not have the space limitations of interior cages.

So, I'm bursting your bubble, nothing new.

[CRaSHnBuRN]

Is this thing still gonna be a daily driver?

no, the plan was to drive it the this semester, but that kinda went down the drain when the week I requested off during the christmas break was ignored by the new management. During this semester, school and work has been so crazy that I've made it home twice to work on it, and only a day a piece. I had hoped to finish it up over spring break, but interviews got in the way of that as well.

And to tell you the truth, I wouldn't want to drive this thing in houston traffic anyway, so I'm going to pick up a truck to use as a tow rig/daily driver some time before graduation.

[CRaSHnBuRN]

I've seen a couple of exo-interior cages on TTORA. Don't have links, but they've worked well from what I've read and do what they're designed to do, not be as ugly as exo cages, and not have the space limitations of interior cages.

So, I'm bursting your bubble, nothing new.

I never said it was totally unique, but you show me a 1st gen 4runner similar to what I have drawn up there. I've never seen one, and I've been looking for one just so I can ask the builder of it some questions. Even if the design was really common, I would do it simply because I hate the way full exos look, especially on 4runners.

Now since you came in here trying to burst my bubble, find me the links you mentioned so I can take a look at them

[JeepPhisherman]

I'll get them later. One was on a tacoma, one on a 3rd gen 4runner, I think.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

this indo/exo-cage may not be a bad idea for the cheby as the sumbiatch is wide enough as it is.

[CRaSHnBuRN]

yeah, I've seen one on a newer tacoma and a XJ. The Xj was actually what really got me started on the idea. I asked about it on pirate, and had very little feedback other than if I did it, to fully document it so others could copy.

Now for the ones you saw, how did the tubes run into the cab? My idea is to make it look somewhat like the roof rack on a Xterra. I'm hoping to use sandwhich plates on the roof to connect the tubing, in order to keep from cutting holes in the roof that will leak.

[CRaSHnBuRN]

this indo/exo-cage may not be a bad idea for the cheby as the sumbiatch is wide enough as it is.

My problem is that it seems that most exos for 4runners just turn into giant jungle gyms. Plus you have all the tubing surrounding the windshield. If you try to tuck it in to improve visibility, you break the windshield in a roll. Then there is the problem of not being able to get decent crossbracing. Internal cages are nice, but lack room for big guys like us. I can give up the footroom needed to run the tube down in front of the dash, but I want as much headroom as I can get, and the capability to move the seat back some.

I think this design will give me a bunch of the good parts of both designs, while eliminating some of the problems. Granted, the windshield may get broken in a decent roll, but that can still easily happen with the exo. Hell, many exos do more damage than they save.

[CRaSHnBuRN]

as for how weatherproof this will be, I may actually be able to seal it up pretty well. I have 2 sets of doors allready. One will set will be cut up for half doors, the other left alone for bad weather wheeling. And since no tubes actually pass into the cab area from the bed area, I can still build a cover out of sunbrella materials that seals the cab similar to a truck cab, kinda like I discussed earlier in this thread. I'll build it using snaps, so when I want to remove it, I'll just unsnap it, roll it up, and throw it in the tool box.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

I am not worried about the windshield in a good roll so that won't be a problem. It would have taken me a while to figure out the sandwich plates though as I wasn't thinking out of the box too much on it. As of now, the body and cab are in bad enough shape that I am not worried about anything other than them crumplin around me in a flop. ;) I won't mind grindin a few layers of that crappy paint job off anyways. Hopefully I will have time soon to start on it, as the heep needs to be tied into the frame and extended in the rear to cover for a back seat.

[agjohn02]

I'm hoping to use sandwhich plates on the roof to connect the tubing, in order to keep from cutting holes in the roof that will leak.

dont think id do that. thats a pretty important part of the cage. just cut holes in the roof.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

as for how weatherproof this will be, I may actually be able to seal it up pretty well.

your only problem may be in extreme flex it wanting to rip the sheetmetal of the cab

[CRaSHnBuRN]

dont think id do that. thats a pretty important part of the cage. just cut holes in the roof.

Okay, but let me ask you this, how are many cages attached to the frame? They use a sandwhich plate to get through the floor area. I think if I used 3/16 or 1/4 material for the plates, and 3-4 1/2" grade 8 bolts, it would be more than adequate, especially if I have a crossbrace running between the two main bars above the windshield, and another crossbrace running just above the dash inside. I mean, I understand your concern, but do you really think it would be to weak?

[CRaSHnBuRN]

your only problem may be in extreme flex it wanting to rip the sheetmetal of the cab

yes, that has been my one concern, but toys are box framed, and have very little flex in stock form. Hopefully by adding the cage, and tieing it to the frame in a minimum of 8 places (current design) it shouldn't be that bad

[agjohn02]

Okay, but let me ask you this, how are many cages attached to the frame? They use a sandwhich plate to get through the floor area. I think if I used 3/16 or 1/4 material for the plates, and 3-4 1/2" grade 8 bolts, it would be more than adequate, especially if I have a crossbrace running between the two main bars above the windshield, and another crossbrace running just above the dash inside. I mean, I understand your concern, but do you really think it would be to weak?


i dont see any problem with the whole cage being bolted through the tub. especially if the seats are attached to the cage. maybe it wont be too weak but the fact remains that you are putting a weaker point right over your head in the most important part of the cage. i guess its your judgement call though.

[mudtoy67]

Okay, but let me ask you this, how are many cages attached to the frame? They use a sandwhich plate to get through the floor area. I think if I used 3/16 or 1/4 material for the plates, and 3-4 1/2" grade 8 bolts, it would be more than adequate, especially if I have a crossbrace running between the two main bars above the windshield, and another crossbrace running just above the dash inside. I mean, I understand your concern, but do you really think it would be to weak?

I think a good compromise would be to go ahead and cut holes in the roof for the tube to go through, but before you weld it all up, slip a sandwich plate over the tube. Then stick the bar through the roof from the outside, weld the tube in place in the cage, then slide the sandwich plate down to the roof. Bolt it to the roof with some silicone or some sort of gasket, and weld it in place on the tube. Might be a little more complicated, but it would be a better design for the cage and give you a little extra support at the roof.

[agjohn02]

i like it!

[CRaSHnBuRN]

I think a good compromise would be to go ahead and cut holes in the roof for the tube to go through, but before you weld it all up, slip a sandwich plate over the tube. Then stick the bar through the roof from the outside, weld the tube in place in the cage, then slide the sandwich plate down to the roof. Bolt it to the roof with some silicone or some sort of gasket, and weld it in place on the tube. Might be a little more complicated, but it would be a better design for the cage and give you a little extra support at the roof.

yes, I've been considering that as well. I was a little worried that the roof would not be quite flat enough, and the sandwhich would tear the sheetmetal, which led me to that idea. I was gonna ask about everyones idea on that earlier, but ran out of time

[Eckert]

how about a cage like this?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v683/eric113/truggy006.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v683/eric113/truggy005.jpg

and as far as sandwhiches go

http://www.jkcustoms.com/garyFJ45_015.jpg

http://www.jkcustoms.com/garyFJ45_014.jpg

sorry for the size

[CRaSHnBuRN]

Actually, I just reread what you typed and realized your idea was different from mine. It still involves one plate, and cutting a hole, but is somewhat different. One problem I can see with coming straight through the body then running back, all in one tube, is that it would require a couple of bends really close to each other in order to turn straight up, then make a 90 degree transition to run straight back. We could skip the turning straight up part, but that would make the hole in the roof oblong or something. Its kinda hard to explain it.

What I thought to do was drill the hole in the roof. Then bend the A pillar, leaving it a little long, and drop it through the hole. Then cut it off flush with the roof, and weld the plate to it, but so that the plate sits of the top of the roof, and can be sealed and bolted down. Then I will run a tube from the B hoop forward, and have it make a 70-90 degree bend downward, and connect it to that plate. Make sense? It would all be one piece then, but built in seperate sections, making it easier to bend and build

[CRaSHnBuRN]

Ekert, I like those sandwhich plates with the smaller tube running through

[DRAGOONRANCH]

the problem with doing the plate on top, you will have to cut it out if you need to repair it at some time

[mudtoy67]

yes, I've been considering that as well. I was a little worried that the roof would not be quite flat enough, and the sandwhich would tear the sheetmetal, which led me to that idea. I was gonna ask about everyones idea on that earlier, but ran out of time

Sure you were :flipoff2:

[mudtoy67]

What I thought to do was drill the hole in the roof. Then bend the A pillar, leaving it a little long, and drop it through the hole. Then cut it off flush with the roof, and weld the plate to it, but so that the plate sits of the top of the roof, and can be sealed and bolted down. Then I will run a tube from the B hoop forward, and have it make a 70-90 degree bend downward, and connect it to that plate. Make sense? It would all be one piece then, but built in seperate sections, making it easier to bend and build

Maybe if you do it like the picture above your post where the two tubes are sleeved through the plate....I could see that working. I see what you mean though, coming up from the floor along the windshield you would have to bend the tube horizontal, then 90 up, go through the roof, then 90 to the rear again.

[agjohn02]

just follow the windshield line up through the roof. straight shot. unless you get a really tight bend, which isnt strong on big tube and no dies exist, your not going to get all those bends in that tight of a space. you'll probably end up with part of the bend passing though the roof. unless you want the tube to be 5.5" above the roof.

[agjohn02]

here i drew a picture to illustrate my point

[JeepPhisherman]

yeah, I've seen one on a newer tacoma and a XJ. The Xj was actually what really got me started on the idea. I asked about it on pirate, and had very little feedback other than if I did it, to fully document it so others could copy.

Now for the ones you saw, how did the tubes run into the cab? My idea is to make it look somewhat like the roof rack on a Xterra. I'm hoping to use sandwhich plates on the roof to connect the tubing, in order to keep from cutting holes in the roof that will leak.

The ones I saw, that I still haven't found yet, just cut holes through the roof and used some sort of gasket. I know they weren't plated, to allow the body to flex around the cage without rippling. Don't know what kind of gasket, but I've seem some firewall gaskets that might work, that were in the size range of 1.5"

[JeepPhisherman]

I see you mentioned the body getting ripped, which is what I think would happen if they were plated. Even though the frames are boxed, there's still going to be some movement, maybe not enough to worry you, but still.

[eight]

Why would the tube have to come into the plate at anything near a 90 degree angle? I would just put the bend in the tube and then cut parallel to the tube at the distance you want it to be above the cab. Yea the cut end of the tube will end up as a oval but that'll still weld to the flat plate just the same.

[mudtoy67]

I don't think it would have to come at a 90, but with the angle the windshield is already at and the fact that the tube would probably end up going through the roof mid-bend, that oval would be extremely long.

[CRaSHnBuRN]

Why would the tube have to come into the plate at anything near a 90 degree angle? I would just put the bend in the tube and then cut parallel to the tube at the distance you want it to be above the cab. Yea the cut end of the tube will end up as a oval but that'll still weld to the flat plate just the same.


yes, if I used the plate, I wouldn't need the bend on the tube coming from the bottom. It could be cut at whatever angle and welded to the plate. It may require a large hole in the cab, but I don't think it will be to bad. Then the top tube could be bent however it need to be and welded to the plate as well.

But if I tried to do it all as a single piece of tube, from floor, through roof, then back, would require some wierd bends to keep things in the right place, and would still need a really big hole to go through the roof.

[CRaSHnBuRN]

The ones I saw, that I still haven't found yet, just cut holes through the roof and used some sort of gasket. I know they weren't plated, to allow the body to flex around the cage without rippling. Don't know what kind of gasket, but I've seem some firewall gaskets that might work, that were in the size range of 1.5"


any idea where they sourced these grommets? I remember it being asked many of times, but I didn't think anyone had come up with a decent source yet

[CRaSHnBuRN]

I'm going to go home on sunday morning for a meal with the family, and while I'm there I'll try to get some measurements, and pictures. I'll post them up then, and try to figure out the best source of action from that point

[CRaSHnBuRN]

here i drew a picture to illustrate my point

the problem with that idea is the roof is not shaped in a way that will work from what I can tell. That was the original idea, but after looking at the way the roof is curved for several inches above the windshield, and the way the sheetmetal bracing runs, if I tried to to it that way my tubes would come out of the roof pretty far back, and the angle of the tube coming through the roof would require a big oblong hole

[JeepPhisherman]

any idea where they sourced these grommets? I remember it being asked many of times, but I didn't think anyone had come up with a decent source yet

No, I don't. Still haven't looked for the threads, but you can search on TTORA. Probably in the SAS section or the Fab sections.

I'm trying to think where these would be used practically, I'm sure they have some application to home building...

[Eckert]

would this work for a grommet?

http://cableorganizer.com/grommet/rpd-grommets.htm (http://)

[CRaSHnBuRN]

maybe, though I wish the ID was a little smaller for a tighter fit

edit: mcmaster has some cheap options as well, but nothing in the correct size, and most require a really large hole in the sheetmetal, which may be a problem

[CRaSHnBuRN]

okay, I may have found something that will work on mcmaster, and they're cheap

[uglyota]

did you find this thread?
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=318871&highlight=tube+grommet

[CRaSHnBuRN]

I found some threads similar to that with part numbers. I'm still thinking about how I want to do this, and hope I can answer some of the questions I have this weekend. If nothing else I may use the grommets on the floor, and run the tube straight up from the frame, versus a sandwhich plate

[CRaSHnBuRN]

some new pics

http://tamor.us/members-rigs/albums/Build-up/100_0087.sized.jpg

http://tamor.us/members-rigs/albums/Build-up/100_0093.sized.jpg

[CRaSHnBuRN]

front shock mounts

http://tamor.us/members-rigs/albums/Build-up/100_0085.sized.jpg

http://tamor.us/members-rigs/albums/Build-up/100_0090.sized.jpg

[CRaSHnBuRN]

damage to rear of frame and body mounts mentioned earlier

http://tamor.us/members-rigs/albums/Build-up/100_0125.sized.jpg

[CRaSHnBuRN]

pictures of roof for discussion on the cage idea

http://tamor.us/members-rigs/albums/Build-up/100_0096.sized.jpg

inside of roof and sheetmetal support

http://tamor.us/members-rigs/albums/Build-up/100_0109.sized.jpg

3.5x3.5 plate set on roof to judge if it would be flat enough to work

http://tamor.us/members-rigs/albums/Build-up/100_0119.sized.jpg

[CRaSHnBuRN]

so as you can see, the sandwhich plate idea would most likely work, though it may tear the sheetmetal as the body flexes

A grommet could work as well. If I tried to do it with just a single piece of tube, it would require 3 bends minimum. One bend at the dash to follow the angle of the windshield, a bend near the top to turn the tube back to nearly vertical in order to avoid the stock sheetmetal windshield support and to keep the tube from exiting the roof so far back. Finally, there would need to be one more bend to turn the now vertical tube back to horizontal so it can follow the roof line back to the main hoop

a third option may be to run a halo style tube above the roof, then have the A pillar tube turn up and meet it. I don't really know how that would end up looking though it will eliminate the need for the extra bends, and may be the easiest method to build. An added bonus is I can run the halo a little further forward, which will help protect the windshield more

[CRaSHnBuRN]

oh yeah, the front axle is going to be a little wider than in the pics above. To keep the tires out of the springs I need to run spacers, but my current wheel studs are to short to use with the spacers. So as soon as school is done I want to tear the axle down, regear it, put fresh u-joints in it, and get some longer studs



I also measured my wheelbase today, and I ended up at 110 inches, which is a little more than 7 inches longer than stock.

[CRaSHnBuRN]

here is plan B in case I decide the hybrid cage is more of a pain in the ass than its worth and just go with a normal exo. Its not a complete drawing, as there would be more crossbracing added, especially to the main hoop

http://tamor.us/members-rigs/albums/album262/22_5.sized.jpg

BTW, before anyone suggests just doing a normal inside cage, I would like to, but there simply is not enough head room

[mudtoy67]

I think the halo is a great idea. Even if you did it the other way, you still need a tube going across the roof at the front of the cage....well, unless you put it behind the windshield on the inside. The halo would even give you a place to mount some lights.

[CRaSHnBuRN]

there would be a tube crossing the roof above the windshield. I was kinda leary of the halo idea simply because it might look kinda funny since it would have to be narrow to fit. The bars running forward then down just seemed to be a cleaner desing, though maybe not as strong of one. I still can't bring myself to do a full exo, since they simply ruin the lines of a vehicle, so I may yet go with the halo design.

[Gearhead61]

I kinda like the looks of that exo...

[JeepPhisherman]

I like the looks of that exo, but it might look different once its built. I also like your halo idea, with the a-pillar bars comming down through the roof to a semi-interior cage.

[Gearhead61]

I don't know for myself, but I hear lots of people say that there isn't much room inside those yota cabs to begin with, and an interior cage takes up a lot of the space in there.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

I was thinkin along the same lines as a "brow" above the windshield to help catch that part in a RO. I think it would look pimp.

[sasquatch]

just exo the cab. easier, doesnt tear up sheetmetal as bad if you hit something, more room inside. i would hit my head on everybodys cage if i was driving, thats why im going to exo my truck

[AggieTJ2007]

you won't hit your head on my cage or joeseph's cage

[sasquatch]

yall have open rigs. there isnt alot of space to work with in a single cab truck

[agjohn02]

you couldnt tear the headliner out and get a halo up in there?

[HULK-1]

yall have open rigs. there isnt alot of space to work with in a single cab truck

yes lurch needs his head room, he practically hits his head on our front door jam at the dexter house *** :flipoff2:

[CRaSHnBuRN]

The old cage we put in my black truck when we tried to truggy it was tucked up pretty well, and it still came very close to my head. With the 4runner, the seats are even higher, so tucking it up in there may still not be enough. I don't mind the little bit of foot room lost with an internal cage, but after riding in the buggy with a very low roof line, I want my head room.

As for tearing up sheetmetal, that doesn't bother me. I like the looks of a beat rig. So many of the exos just turn into a clusterfawk of pipe it seems. And even with an exo, most people seem to loose thier windshields and sheetmetal in a couple of flops. Yes I do admit that drawing looks pretty sweet, I just don't know if the finished product will turn out the same.

And finally there is always the want to try to do something a little new and different, just so your rig doesn't look like ever other one out there. In the end I may go with the exo, but for now I would like to think of other possibilities

[CRaSHnBuRN]

here is a good example of how a exo can just ruin the look of a vehicle

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6675684&postcount=1704

The guy building this truck puts alot of effort into doing things cleanly, and really thinks outside the box. But he didn't want to do a internal cage due to the lack of room, so he went with an exo. Its not finished yet, but I don't like it, and think it takes away from a vehicle that was really thought out and built well. I know that seems wierd, but thats just my opinion. I just don't think an exo is the way to go for me

[CRaSHnBuRN]

one nice thing about the exo mentioned above is that he is using a halo design in it. I never really noticed until I began looking for them, but very few toy exos use a halo, and none that I found are shaped like the one he is building. Notice it comes to a point near the center of the windshield. Thats basically what I was thinking, to get the "brow" that Ed mentioned in order to somewhat protect the windshield

drawings of different halo designs (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6678034&postcount=1710)

[CRaSHnBuRN]

I think the halo is a great idea. Even if you did it the other way, you still need a tube going across the roof at the front of the cage....well, unless you put it behind the windshield on the inside. The halo would even give you a place to mount some lights.

How about some prerunner lights :D

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6606107&postcount=1677



btw, thats a joke

[CRaSHnBuRN]

okay, I know some of you questioned the strength of a sandwhich plate with the sheetmetal in between, but what do you think of the flanges that some people use on portions of thier cages to allow removal of certain sections?

If you don't understand what I'm talking about you can kind of see it here

http://tamor.us/members-rigs/albums/album192/100_0206.jpg

I needed to add a little protection to the engine, but want to keep it removable, so I added a crossbar with flanges connecting it to the shockmounts.

[CRaSHnBuRN]

Now I understand most of the time, these flanges are used in non critical areas. But Eckerts picture earlier in the thread got me to thinking about making a flange similar to the ones above, but with a piece of tube running inside to help provide extra support. It would be like sleeving the tube, but instead of welding it up, it would be bolt on, and hopefully would be stong enough to use in critical areas.

here is a paint drawing of the idea

http://tamor.us/members-rigs/albums/album262/flange.sized.jpg

In this case, there would be 2 pieces of tubing, say 1.75x.120 DOM, with flanges welded to the end of them. These flanges would have between 2-4 holes drilled in them (depending on what shape you went with) for bolts, and a single large hole, in the center. In this case the hole would be 1.5 so that a piece of the same diameter tube could be slid inside, and maybe plug welded on one side to keep it from moving after everything is together

[CRaSHnBuRN]

So, and reason why that wouldn't work, and be stong enough for use in a critical area? And how long would the piece of tube inside need to be? Would 4 inches be enough? Or would 6 inches be better?

I'm not saying I would use one, but in a case like mine I could see where using a couple of these could make assembling and fully welding a cage together much easier. Plus thinking about stuff like this is much more entertaining then studying like I should be.

As for the flange, AA-MFG has one that would work pretty well for this application, though I would drill the bolts out to 3/8s at least for a little more piece of mind

http://www.aa-mfg.com/pdshop/shop/item.asp?itemid=956

[DRAGOONRANCH]

I have never had a problem with my 4 inches... what???

[mudtoy67]

How about some prerunner lights :D

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6606107&postcount=1677



btw, thats a joke

I think the prerunner lights would look pretty good, as long as they're just the 4 or 6 inch lights, not those ginormous Hella lights some people use.


But what do I know....I like nekked lady mudflaps. :flipoff2:

[AggieTJ2007]

how about theses they are super trick
http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/product.php?productid=66&cat=58&page=1

or these like the ones you posted before but with 4 holes
http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/Tube-Flange-4-bolt-design-2-pieces_p_89-1159.html

[AggieTJ2007]

oh and w/ 4 holes it keeps the flange closer to the same size as the tube.

As far as the tube inside the flange i would keep it short maybe even 3 inches because it is going to add alot of stress where the inner tube ends

[Gearhead61]

I think WHERE you put the flanges would be more critical than whether or not you "sleeve" them like you're talking about, though the sleeves couldn't hurt.

[mudtoy67]

I think WHERE you put the flanges would be more critical than whether or not you "sleeve" them like you're talking about, though the sleeves couldn't hurt.

What the inner sleeves do is give you something else to resist shear forces at the flange other than the bolts. The design of the sleeve would need to consider the sheer force at the parting line of the flanges, and the bearing stress applied to the inside of the main tubes....which could cause the tubes and flange to split.

They also help to distribute the bending forces occuring at the flange, as if the tube was one piece.

I could see "where" being a factor if the case was a load that was always applied in a certain direction, but in the case of a roll it can be from any direction.

[Gearhead61]

Yeah I understand why the sleeve would be in there (though that's a very good explanantion anyways!) but he'd mentioned earlier that most people only put them in non-critical areas (i.e. engine compartment where the added support between the shock towers/whatever else would be beneficial, but not necessary for the safety of the rig) so that's more what I was agreeing with. Man that doesn't even make sense to me, and I just wrote it...

Anyways, I understand (I'm actually doing pretty well in CVEN 305 right now) but I guess I just don't have enough experience with this sort of thing to be offering any helpful input haha.

[CRaSHnBuRN]

Yeah I understand why the sleeve would be in there (though that's a very good explanantion anyways!) but he'd mentioned earlier that most people only put them in non-critical areas (i.e. engine compartment where the added support between the shock towers/whatever else would be beneficial, but not necessary for the safety of the rig) so that's more what I was agreeing with. Man that doesn't even make sense to me, and I just wrote it...

Anyways, I understand (I'm actually doing pretty well in CVEN 305 right now) but I guess I just don't have enough experience with this sort of thing to be offering any helpful input haha.

Yeah, that first paragraph is confusing :flipoff2:

But yes, the sleeve idea is to take the shear forces off the bolts, for added strength in critical areas, like the main legs in a cage.

As for non critical areas, where you put them does play a factor, as it would anywhere else. But the shear forces are of less concern, which is why most people seldom use more than two 3/8 bolts to connect those flanges.

The problem with designing stuff like for our sport is that you can spend all this time working on it, and the cage can still fail. There are just to many variables. A cage may survive a nasty roll, yet fail on a easy flop, just because of the terrian. The bottom bars on my buggy were 2 inch sch 80 (2.375 OD, .220 wall) that really took a beating, yet Rowdy put a nasty dent in them just moving the buggy 20 ft up a trail

[DRAGOONRANCH]

You see, no matter what you do, science will never be able to quantitate the "Rowdy" factor. :D

[AggieTJ2007]

yes

[agjohn02]

http://tamor.us/members-rigs/albums/album262/flange.sized.jpg




i bet you'd be really good at some actual modeling software. the fact that you are so good at paint is just sad though. :flipoff2:

[Reckless]

You see, no matter what you do, science will never be able to quantitate the "Rowdy" factor. :D



Damn Skippy :flipoff2:

[AggieTJ2007]

and you wonder why I won't let you drive the jeep

[Reckless]

Even I cant **** up the jeep anymore than you can

[Gearhead61]

You see, no matter what you do, science will never be able to quantitate the "Rowdy" factor. :D

Well everyone's gotta be good at SOMETHING...

[DRAGOONRANCH]

Well everyone's gotta be good at SOMETHING...


Let's just say that nobody is better at being Rowdy than Rowdy. :gigem:

[DRAGOONRANCH]

Even I cant **** up the jeep anymore than you can

He's got a point there Creighton. :flipoff2:

[CRaSHnBuRN]

i bet you'd be really good at some actual modeling software. the fact that you are so good at paint is just sad though. :flipoff2:

****, thats like ten minutes in paint. The drawings on the truck took less than 30 minutes. And yeah, I'm pretty good with most design software, but all I have access to right now is a older copy of autocad that has some problems with it. Not to mention its been so long since I used autocad that I'm pretty rusty. Now if I still had a working copy of Pro E, I would be in business. For some reason I could do stuff with that program that even the TAs couldn't do.

[mudtoy67]

Enough talkie talkie already....start bendin some tube! :gigem:

[agjohn02]

i say, at 3:17 pm today, we all just concentrate really hard and picture the cage in our heads. maybe the collective will power of the club will build it for him. kinda like the ball turrent gunner and the shot off landing gear on that twilight zone episode.

[CRaSHnBuRN]

**** yeah, you guys get on that. I want to see this thing done the next time I go home :flipoff2:

[CRaSHnBuRN]

oh yeah. take care of the fender trimming and add some new paint while you'll are at it :flipoff2:

[CRaSHnBuRN]

I hope to start on the cage right around or just after graduation, so I still have a few weeks of thinking and planning.

[CRaSHnBuRN]

WTH, its past 3:17, and my dad says that no cage has magically appeared yet. You guys are falling down on the job here :mad:

[CRaSHnBuRN]

okay, from the pics you guys can kinda see how tall the 4runner is on the 40 inch iroks. One mod that I did that I was kinda leary on was the 2 inch body lift. I never have like them much, but at the time I hoped that it would give me the room needed for a flatbelly without having to cut the floor (it didn't). I had hoped that when combined with relatively flat springs the truck would not be to tall. It came out pretty good, and the truck is still not huge, but its still a little higher than I would like. Should I remove the body lift? If I want to do it, now is the time to before I start welding on stuff like bumpers and a cage. At this point everything I did mod wise to match the bodylift (raised t-cases, moded steering shaft, dropped radiator, etc) could be easily changed back

[CRaSHnBuRN]

oh yeah, I may leave the t-cases raised up and cut the floor to match now that its going to be a trail only rig. The only problems I can see with ditching the bodylift is of course the tires not fitting, but considering how the fenders will be cut, I don't think it will be a big deal. I may also push the axles forward or back more if needed

[Gearhead61]

I'm not a big fan of body lifts either. Why don't you cut the floor and go for the flat belly?

EDIT: I'd pull the body lift and cut the floor and the fenders like you just said.

[CRaSHnBuRN]

I may, but maybe not at this stage. It may wait until I try to link the rear. To much stuff, not enough time

[agjohn02]

pull it. body lifts are :rainbow:

[CRaSHnBuRN]

just realized the rear shocks mounts would need to go to drop it, but they might when I cut the rear fender anyway.

[Gearhead61]

If you're going to link it, is it that big a deal?

[CRaSHnBuRN]

links will not happen any time soon. Thats a future project.

The shocks are currently like this /\ and I would like to mount them like this l l . When I cut the fenders it will be easier to build some mounts off the cage to accomplish this.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

pull it. body lifts are :rainbow:


...and trust it when John calls somethin :rainbow: , cause he is all about the ghey. :flipoff3:

[JeepPhisherman]

Ballistic just started selling their ID tube clamps.

http://ballisticfabrication.3dcartstores.com/ID-Tube-Clamp_p_21-1467.html

Cheaper than the camburgs, but still $35 a pop. Just another idea for your cage work decisions.

[CRaSHnBuRN]

yeah, I've seen those at polyperformance I think. Its an option, but well out of my price range at this point

[CRaSHnBuRN]

I just found this, and figured I would throw this in since this is another approach to the cage ideas we've been discussing here

http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/tacoma/taco75.JPG

http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/tacoma/taco77.JPG

Its the ballistic fab shop rig
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=558164

[CRaSHnBuRN]

and if I ever narrow the front flip, I'm gonna use a taco grill. Thier's looks sweet

http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/tacoma/tacofront.JPG

[colman]

interesting front axle

[CRaSHnBuRN]

interesting front axle

yeah, I hadn't seen one like it yet. Most of the fabricated housings I've seen had round tubes that were welded as a intregral part of the diff area. This one almost looks like it was fabricated, then had the tubes pressed in

[JeepPhisherman]

I just found this, and figured I would throw this in since this is another approach to the cage ideas we've been discussing here



Its the ballistic fab shop rig
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=558164


Yea, I meant to link that a while ago. I like the frontend and the mounts for the cage were unique.

[JeepPhisherman]

yeah, I hadn't seen one like it yet. Most of the fabricated housings I've seen had round tubes that were welded as a intregral part of the diff area. This one almost looks like it was fabricated, then had the tubes pressed in


Maybe just trying to be different since diamonds are patented?

[CRaSHnBuRN]

well it might be cheaper for someone building an axle to go that route, since they can source thier own tubes, and shipping would be alot cheaper

[CRaSHnBuRN]

Before I reassemble the rear axle (it needs to be pulled out of the shop to make room to get the shafts back in), I'd like to weld up the diff. Now I just had it regeared, and it hasn't been broken in yet. Is there any reason I couldn't pull the carrier and ring gear, weld them up, then reinstall them? Would this throw the pattern off or anything like that?

[stx4wheeler]

if you get it to hot yes, as far as welding it. i do not know about the gear break in. I have always pulled the ring gear off when welding diffs.

[fbronco86]

if you get it to hot yes, as far as welding it. i do not know about the gear break in. I have always pulled the ring gear off when welding diffs.

Feck all that just weld them in place. Keep your ground close to your weld so you dont arc a bearing.

[CRaSHnBuRN]

if you get it to hot yes, as far as welding it. i do not know about the gear break in. I have always pulled the ring gear off when welding diffs.

Would removing the ring gear throw things off if I put it back on the same way it came off? Since there are no shims or anything, I would guess it would be the same, right? If nothing else it seems I'd leave the ring gear off, and spray some antisplatter stuff on it and be careful. As for overheating it, do most people reset the gears after welding the diff? I didn't think most did, so I figured it would be fine

[CRaSHnBuRN]

Feck all that just weld them in place. Keep your ground close to your weld so you dont arc a bearing.

I'd do it like that, but most likely I'm going to need to weld it someplace around here versus at home, and don't feel like pulling the entire axle for that

[agjohn02]

ive done both. i welded my rear carrier in place. just blacken the ring gear with a torch burning acetylene only and ground on the carrier. ive pulled a few ring gears off to put in lunch box lockers and reinstalled with no problems. just be sure to mark the ring and carrier so they go back together the same way. if you are stick welding i would definately pull the carrier. i didnt and it took forever to get all of the slag out of the housing.

[CRaSHnBuRN]

ive done both. i welded my rear carrier in place. just blacken the ring gear with a torch burning acetylene only and ground on the carrier. ive pulled a few ring gears off to put in lunch box lockers and reinstalled with no problems. just be sure to mark the ring and carrier so they go back together the same way. if you are stick welding i would definately pull the carrier. i didnt and it took forever to get all of the slag out of the housing.

I think I'm going to use Garrett's mig so that will help me avoid the slag problem. I'll most likely pull the ring gear for peace of mind

[stx4wheeler]

there still will be some slag. i usually have to pound the shaft lightly into the carrier to clean up all the splines. John good idea with the acetylene, i hadnt thought or that.

[CRaSHnBuRN]

what size bolts does a 8000-9000 lb warn winch use to bolt down to the winch plate? I want to say they're 3/8s, at least on the M8000. And the standard winch bolt pattern is 10x4.5, right? Trying to plan out my front bumper, and want it ready for a winch later when I can afford one

[Sharpe]

I dont recall on my m12000 but I know its either 3/8 or 7/16.

[agjohn02]

3/8" and its not exactly 10". more like 10 3/16". at least on mine it was.

[CRaSHnBuRN]

okay, I called up Mack to price some of the steel I needed, and ask them about tubing. The guy I talked to thought he had some in the diameter I needed, but said it was only .093 wall. He couldn't tell me if it was DOM or HREW. Hopefully he has a stick or two of something thicker, but if he doesn't, would there be any problems with me using the thin wall stuff in areas that may not see contact with rocks? I have 4 sticks of DOM, and hope to stretch that as far as I can, but if I could supplement the thin wall stuff in for things like the X braces on the main hoop, that would help

[RCcola55]

you cant call and ask for hrew or dom, just tell them you need 1.75" or 1.5" 11 gauge (.120" wall) ROUND TUBING, because thats all there computers say

[CRaSHnBuRN]

I told him round tubing in 1.75, he said the heaviest thickness he had was .093. Hopefully he's wrong and they do have the .120 when I get there

[mudtoy67]

He's probably talking about pipe. I've never known them to carry or even care to sell actual tubing.

Ask John Cox, that's his favorite place to go. :flipoff2:

[JeepPhisherman]

He's probably talking about pipe. I've never known them to carry or even care to sell actual tubing.

Ask John Cox, that's his favorite place to go. :flipoff2:

They had DOM last time I was there, I seen it!! It looked to be .120.

[mudtoy67]

Interesting...


Just make sure you measure the actual od. Back in the day the guy that worked there liked to call uncoated pipe "tubing".

[agjohn02]

ask him to feel the inside. HREW will have a seam in it. .093 would be fine for interior peices. it'll actually save some weight. I thought about doing this but it was too easy to just get all .120". see what lengths they have then ask him to see how far up his arse he can get one of those sticks.

[sasquatch]

you need to go out there to find out for yourself what they have. unless they got some more, me and ryan bought most of it.

[CRaSHnBuRN]

if anyone has some 1.75x.120 DOM or HREW left over they want to sell, let me know. It doesn't need to be a full stick

Hopefully they'll have the stuff I need up there when I get there. If necessary, I may pick up a stick or two of the thin wall stuff to use in non critical areas and for bracing. Barring any problems my new truck should be here the end of this week. As soon as I have that I'll go down to mack and see whats there

[agjohn02]

ive got a bunch of peices 6"-12" long ill let go for pretty cheap.

[CRaSHnBuRN]

thats a little shorter than what I need

[CRaSHnBuRN]

Back to cage design again. The first two pictures below are of a exo cage design I really like. I like how the main hoop (B pillar) is actually not a hoop like most people do, but several pieces connecting in node. This seems alot more easy to do then a hoop with 5+ bends, and hopefully fewer chances to **** up what tube I have.

What I intend to do is build the main hoop of the cage as a series of straight tubes connecting at a series of nodes. This should work whether I go with a internal cage, full exo, or hybrid. In the third picture is a drawing of what I intend to do. The green circles show where the nodes will be. The main tube for the top section will be the halo hoop running towards the front of the cab. All the other tubes will be connected to this. For the lower section, the tube running horizontally behind the seats will be the main tube, with everything mating to it. I will of course cap off any open tubes, and may stick a small piece of 1.5 inch tubing inside the main tube supporting the node, just to add a little more strength.

Like I said, I think this will be easier multiple bends, and allow me to get the cage closer to the body then a series of bends would. Other than looks perhaps, would there be any reasons that this would be a bad idea?

[uglyota]

dude those nodes look like ass. Don't be scared to put multiple bends in a piece of tube, it's not that hard to get right, and it all looks crooked in pictures

[RCcola55]

here ya go...

200ft of 1.75"

http://www.fcfabrication.com/thumbnail.JPG

[FJAggie07]

Holy **** how much weight did that add?

[sasquatch]

i'm going to exo my cab like that probably

[RCcola55]

Holy **** how much weight did that add?

not much, i used 6 sticks in my cage that i just finished which is 144ft, ide say each stick is 50#'s, so im guessing 200ft would add 400-450#'s

[JeepPhisherman]

not much, i used 6 sticks in my cage that i just finished which is 144ft, ide say each stick is 50#'s, so im guessing 200ft would add 400-450#'s

1.75 .120 wall tube weighs around 2.1 lb/ft according to this handy dandy materials book I have, so 420 lbs + however many pounds of weld and gussets.

[RCcola55]

1.75 .120 wall tube weighs around 2.1 lb/ft according to this handy dandy materials book I have, so 420 lbs + however many pounds of weld and gussets.
ok.... thanks for clearing it up

[FJAggie07]

1.75 .120 wall tube weighs around 2.1 lb/ft according to this handy dandy materials book I have, so 420 lbs + however many pounds of weld and gussets.

Well aren't you just handy to keep around. Now shut up and get back to work on that SAS :flipoff2:

[CRaSHnBuRN]

dude those nodes look like ass. Don't be scared to put multiple bends in a piece of tube, it's not that hard to get right, and it all looks crooked in pictures

the ones in the drawings do, but I like the way that cage looks. The guy who built that used that design on most of his cages, and I like the way all of them have turned out. As for the nodes behind the seats, you will never even notice those are there since then are hidden inside the body.

[CRaSHnBuRN]

here ya go...

200ft of 1.75"



damn thats alot of tube. I do like how the rear is tied together with the tire carrier. I can't decide whether I should worry about carrying a fullsize spare. They're nice to have, but add alot of weight

[JeepPhisherman]

ok.... thanks for clearing it up

I like exact numbers, not your estimated bull****, wigger!

[CRaSHnBuRN]

Finally after another month I got to work on the 4runner again. I pulled the front axle back out to regear it and clean it up some. I also removed the body lift, dropping the 4runner 2 inches. Since I was pressed for time, I dropped the t-case mount down to the stock position, but after looking at how low it hangs, I think I'm going to pull my seats, cut out the floor and raise them back up. I also tried to relocate the steering box, but I'm going to have to molest some sheetmetal for that to happen. I would have tried doing this today, but my sawzall is on the fritz and I didn't have any thing else to cut with.

[CRaSHnBuRN]

I do have a problem though. How do I get a carrier out of the axle? I wanted to pull my rear carrier so I could weld it up. I pulled the bearing caps, and there are no axle shafts in the housing, but the carrier will not come out, no matter how much I tried to pry it out. Am I missing something, or is there a trick to it?

[Doug Krebs]

I do have a problem though. How do I get a carrier out of the axle? I wanted to pull my rear carrier so I could weld it up. I pulled the bearing caps, and there are no axle shafts in the housing, but the carrier will not come out, no matter how much I tried to pry it out. Am I missing something, or is there a trick to it?

crowbar on both sides? Some of them take alot to get out.

[fbronco86]

I do have a problem though. How do I get a carrier out of the axle? I wanted to pull my rear carrier so I could weld it up. I pulled the bearing caps, and there are no axle shafts in the housing, but the carrier will not come out, no matter how much I tried to pry it out. Am I missing something, or is there a trick to it?

grab some sac and yank it out.

[jerryg79]

grab some sac and yank it out.

sac sends!

I know someone old remembers that :gigem:

[fbronco86]

sac sends!

I know someone old remembers that :gigem:

what the fawk are you talkin about willis

[CRaSHnBuRN]

crowbar on both sides? Some of them take alot to get out.

I tried that with a prybar and some random junk of pipe, and bent the pipe, but the carrier stayed. This is the same one I had regear at J&P a few months back, so I'm surprised its in there that solid. I was about to hook a come along to it and try yanking it out, but figured I would first stop and make sure there wasn't something I had missed

[jerryg79]

what the fawk are you talkin about willis

It's before your time.

Back when I used to "wheel" :eek:

[CRaSHnBuRN]

It's before your time.

Back when I used to "wheel" :eek:

wait, you wheeled? :flipoff2:

[jerryg79]

wait, you wheeled? :flipoff2:

i use the term loosely....

[mudtoy67]

You may already have it jammed at an angle. Take a dead blow hammer, or a hammer with a wood block, and beat it back in there. Then try to work it out again. You may have to work it back and forth. The quickest way that normally works for me is to take a heel bar (looks like a pry bar with the end at 90 degrees) and use it at the top of the carrier between the housing and one of the carrier bolts. I then use a pry bar at the bottom of the ring gear and work the carrier out.

I wouldn't do the come along. If it's jammed in there you could make things worse.

[agjohn02]

is it a 14 bolt? did you loosen the backlash setter thingamabobs? if its a dana your just being too bigga poon.

theres a thread on pirate where someone hooked a tow strap up to the carrier and yanked it out with his truck.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

is it a 14 bolt? did you loosen the backlash setter thingamabobs? if its a dana your just being too bigga poon.

theres a thread on pirate where someone hooked a tow strap up to the carrier and yanked it out with his truck.


Hmm, this may have been the problem when we tried to pull the one we took to shupe at TCC. I will have to look this up when I get them up on stands to put them back together.

[fbronco86]

is it a 14 bolt? did you loosen the backlash setter thingamabobs? if its a dana your just being too bigga poon.

theres a thread on pirate where someone hooked a tow strap up to the carrier and yanked it out with his truck.

I would use a 4 wheeler

[stx4wheeler]

its a dana 70, he just needs to put some more nuts into it. The gears should be tighter since they are new, and will loosen up slighty more after they are broke in if i remember correctly. I have always used a prybar/deadblow/piece of square tube to get them out. However we used ratchet straps to get cj's 44 carrier out, first attached to the garage table-that almost tore down the garage. Then we hooked it to coops jeep and held the brakes, that finallly got it out. Also on chris's dana 44 front i used a carrier spreader it made it easier to get out.

[Shaggy]

use the comealong... i have done it several times and it works gud

[bburris]

Be sure to cushion the fall when they come out... Maybe with some pillows, but be sure to use the ones your other half uses so your head doesn't smell like gear oil the next morning.

[Shaggy]

i used cardboard boxes and styrofoam to stop the fall

[CRaSHnBuRN]

new goodies

http://tamor.us/members-rigs/albums/Build-up/100_0141.sized.jpg

got one for the front and the back. 100 bucks for the pair including shipping

[JeepPhisherman]

new goodies



got one for the front and the back. 100 bucks for the pair including shipping

How long did you have those on order?

When they first came out selling for so cheap, I heard of people waiting 4 months for the 44 covers.

[CRaSHnBuRN]

ordered monday afternoon, had them friday morning

[CRaSHnBuRN]

Okay, I moved my steering box forward about 2 inches, and rotated it up about an inch, so that everything just barely clears the frame. I then installed a new PS reservoir, and drilled out the pump for better flow.

I also cut the hell out of my floor so that I could do the 2 inch drivetrain lift without a body lift. Its not quite a flat belly, but its tucked up in there pretty good. I'm going to have to work on the seat mounts as the floor is pretty flimsy now.

No pics at the moment as I'm only on dial up right now. More to hopefully come in a few days