Hydraulic Steering

[DRAGOONRANCH]

Ok, it's about time to start getting the hydro steering parts together. I don't really want to go with a "kit" on this, but would like to see if anyone would be interested in helping me get all the parts. The hoses I will have made once I install the hardware so I get the right lengths.

What pump would yall recomend and where to get a good orbital and ram. Would yall recomend double sided or just go with the single side?

[mudtoy67]

Double sided seems to be the way to go with rams. With a single sided it will take more turns of the wheel to turn one direction than the other because of the volume displaced by the rod. I've seen some people using regular steering pumps for full hydro, but I think PSC or AGR make/modify pumps specifically for hydro.

If you feel like scrounging older ford tractors and some case backhoe used a v-belt driven hydraulic pump. You could also scrounge an orbital valve from one while you're at it, though the fords that came with the belt driven pump normally had hydro assisted mechanical steering.

[agjohn02]

i hear of orbitals coming from forklifts. thats all i got, sorry.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

http://zenseeker.net/4x4/Steering.htm

I came across this in my research and it has some pretty good tech in it.

[eight]

Dammit its a cylinder, not a ram.

Yes go with the double ended. I would suggest one from here. (http://surpluscenter.com/sort.asp?UID=2006092419351583&catname=hydraulic&keyword=HCP1)

You have to match the orbital to the cylinder. If you just grabbed one from a tractor it may or may not work like you want. This is how the number of turns lock to lock are controlled.

[davido]

I think Andy is the only one in the club with a double ended one. Scott has full hydro also though.

[tigweld]

I think scotts thing had a steering box last time I saw it.

[CRaSHnBuRN]

no, I think he had full hydro when we were in clayton in december

[CRaSHnBuRN]

search pirate to find out what kinda valve you need. Get the cylinder from surplus center like kopecki said. Source the orbital from the same place, or there is also a place in conroe that sells rebuilt stuff. I forget the name, but me and robbie discussed it on a thread here

[DRAGOONRANCH]

Thanks guys, I have tried to get ahold of Sean at POR and have had no luck, will try again tonite.


Oh, and kopecki, bite me! :flipoff2:

[Cajun]

Sean was very difficult to get in touch with when I bought my system. He would always return calls, but sometimes it would take him over a week. He'll talk to you for as long as you want when you catch him, so have your list of questions ready. The quality of their parts is tip top, but I think he's just overwhelmed with orders.

If not POS I would go with PSC. I believe the owner's name is Tom, and he was easy to get in touch with and very helpful even though I hadn't orderend anything from him.

One of the guys here has full hydro with a single ended Ag cylinder that he may be replacing in the next couple of months. If you're interested I'll get some more info.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

Well, I got ahold of him finally and we had a nice chat about the set up. I will be getting him to put the stuff together in a week or so. He said the saginaw pumps are on major back order right now, but he could go with another pump but would be a few more dollars. I will cross that bridge when I get there though, I told him that I had a deadline to get the stuff in and he said no problem.

[DRAGOONRANCH]

When I was doing my 'cipherin' on where to drill my Mad4WD arms for the 60, I figured out some psi numbers on different sized cylinders. I used 1500 psi as the pump output variable. The 'Arm Force' was calculated by using a base of 70 deg total steering (which is all I can get with the 44"s and leafsprings right now) and then factoring in the stroke of the ram/cylinder. (i.e.-if you need 70 deg of steering w/ an 8" stroke, then you will have your tie-rod connect 7"s from the center of the kingpin/balljoint.)


Inside bore x stroke x shaft dia.
2.5" x 8" x 1.5"

Surface Area of Piston (Bore area - Shaft Area)
3.14"^2

Lateral Force (Surface area x 1500 psi)
4700lbs

7" Arm force
32,970 in/lbs or 2,747 ft/lbs

---------------------------------------

Inside bore x stroke x shaft dia.
2.5" x 10" x 1.5"

Surface Area of Piston
3.14"^2

Lateral Force (Surface area x 1500 psi)
4700lbs

8.72" Arm force
40,977 in/lbs or 3,414 ft/lbs

---------------------------------------

Inside bore x stroke x shaft dia.
3" x 10" x 1.5"

Surface Area of Piston
5.29"^2

Lateral Force (Surface area x 1500 psi)
7935lbs

8.72" Arm force
69,193 in/lbs or 5,766 ft/lbs

---------------------------------------

Inside bore x stroke x shaft dia.
4" x 12" x 1.5"

Surface Area of Piston
10.79"^2

Lateral Force (Surface area x 1500 psi)
16,185lbs

10.46" Arm force
169,295 in/lbs or 14,108 ft/lbs


How to calculate your arm length:

Total Degrees in Steering/2 (70/2=35)
Find Sin of 35 (Sin35=0.573)
Inverse of Sin (1/0.573=1.743)
Multiply Inv of Sin by half of your cylinder's stroke (1.743*4"=6.97")

Here is the calculations on a 10" ram for a total of 84 degrees (The Long CV's are a "45 degree CV" that need to be limited to 42 per Bobby"
Total Degrees in Steering/2 (84/2=42)
Find Sin of 35 (Sin35=0.669)
Inverse of Sin (1/0.669=1.494)
Multiply Inv of Sin by half of your cylinder's stroke (1.494*5"=7.47")

I will need to limit a 10" stroke by 0.31" on both sides (0.63" total) to still utilize the 7" arm length for the 84/42 deg steering.

[Busa]

Call PSC and ask for Lance. Drop my name and he will give you a better price. I have an account with them. When i did Austins toy he set him up with everything for like 1200. We did go with a single ended ram on his becouse of space. I have a double ended and it took me a while to set it up in a tight space. Both work great with the right set up. I would state be calling Lance and he can tell you what to buy it you dont wont there suff. I think there stuff is the best. When i have had problem or need extra parts he always takes care of me. I had a pump go out in Colorado an they overnighted me one to get back on the trail no charge.

[AggieTJ2007]

I have been very happy with my PSC steering I am actually on my 2nd PSC setup

[DRAGOONRANCH]

http://www.handymath.com/cgi-bin/arc18.cgi

This one helps you calculate your arm length.

Input your total steering degrees and the total length of your ram to find the distance from the kingpin to the mount for the tierods.

In this picture the width=stroke of ram, angle=total steering angle and the radius=distance to drill for tierods.


http://www.handymath.com/webimages/radpic4.gif