Ford Efi, and efi in general

[stx4wheeler]

Alright, i am hoping to procure the stock ford efi system from travis(broncojo) for my 460. Now come the questions that i will eventually need help with.

1. Tranny since i will be using a non computer controlled tranny, i will either need to delete the stuff that runs the tranny, or find a computer from a standard correct?

2. Can i expect any better fuel mileage(not that this is a main concern at all)

3. i will remove the huge cam that is in there most likely and put a milder cam that will either run with the stock system, or go a little larger on the cam, injectors etc and have to get a mass air system.

4. is mass air worth the added money? How much ballpark does a mass air system cost? What other parts will be needed to make it run correctly?

5. When i get the efi heads redone, ie decked or maybe some port/polish work will this piss off the stock system, will mass air be needed for this as well.

6. This will most likely be a long term project, as i will put the carb'd 460 in the new nasty first for simplicity, and since i know it runs good, and everything has been rebuilt. So i will have plenty of time to research all what i need or dont. Plus there is lots of stuff i want to get done to the truck asap when i finally take possesion of it.

7. Will i have to get a new tank with the intank pump, or does the after market make a pump that is outside of the tank that can make the 39-50 psi range which is the number that sticks in my head for ford fuel injection?

8. Be gay and forget the efi, and use the cash to build an even badder car'b motor :flipoff2:

Flem i know you did a similar swap on your old f-150, how much did you have in the system in the end?

What are some good sites, books etc to learn some of this stuff. Also what are some good books sites to learn electrical in general.

[BroncoJo]

any mod that will get more fuel or air flowing through the motor will need mass air.

I'm about 95 % sure there are inline fuel pumps that can support the pressure to run efi.

as for the computer, you will need one that supports mass air if thats the way you go.

[RCcola55]

efi sucks, mostly because i dont understand whats going on

[robertf03]

I can't remember what mine cost, it was all junkyard parts though

is there a factory or ford motorsport computer setup for a mass air 460?

the ford efi book is decent, and its got wiring diagrams in the back. Most barnes and nobles's''s have it in stock

then theres electronic engine management by frank munday. It assumes the reader knows nothing and doesn't get very technical, but its got a lot of pictures and the author is australian so theres some wierd **** in there. Don't buy it, its only worth reading once but if you want to borrow it you can. it covers some oem and some aftermarket efi

and theres quite a few about aftermarket efi systems. jeff hartmans book is the best I've read, but at times it seems like a text book

[stx4wheeler]

efi sucks, mostly because i dont understand whats going on


this is my main reason for not wanting efi, but i think it would be a cool touch to my project someday.

Yet the more i read the more **** i need to know, and the more cash it is gonna cost. For the probable 1g i would need or so to do a good efi sysem, i could get my heads reworked some, get an intake, and a bigger carb. The other thing that i am leary or of is without understanding electrical it puts me at a huge disadvantage when working all of the many friggin kinks that comes with a custom efi system. I guess i could leave the motor mostly stock, and it wouldnt be as big of a hassle. But stock is boring

[BroncoJo]

this might sound crazy.

If the firing order is the same between the bbf and sbf is the same then why not adapt mass air from a sbf to a bbf. There are plenty of aftermarket parts for the sb that could handle the air and fuel flow for a mild 460.

[robertf03]

Its been done, but its kind of a hack in my opinion. Here is why I wouldn't do this.

Mustang folk love mass air because it can handle lots of upgrades and still account for the exact amount of air entering the engine. Speed density setups use the vacuum and a table to calculate how much air should be in the engine at a specific time. If you change something in the engine then the tables have to be changed which requires tuning the vehicle. Ford stuff isn't easy or cheap to tune since it doesn't have removable rom like gm stuff. The mustang ignition advance curve must be very conservative from the factory for these people to get away with doing this. Most of the power from efi comes from the tuning of the ignition. When you start looking at big time modified fox body mustangs, you start seeing them with aftermarket efi setup as speed density. If you have to take the time to tune, speed density is better since it is slightly faster response to changes, and there is no required bottleneck on the air intake.

Doing a mass air setup like you mentioned would require tuning to run 100% correctly, and that negates all of the benefits of mass air.

If you are going to use a junkyard setup from another vehicle, a computer from a speed density tpi gm car would probably be easier to get running correctly. There is a TON of public domain knowledge floating around the internet about tuning this stuff, and software is cheap or free.

See if your buddy Jerry will give you his computer and wiring harness.

[BroncoJo]

When you start looking at big time modified fox body mustangs, you start seeing them with aftermarket efi setup as speed density. If you have to take the time to tune, speed density is better since it is slightly faster response to changes, and there is no required bottleneck on the air intake.

Doing a mass air setup like you mentioned would require tuning to run 100% correctly, and that negates all of the benefits of mass air.


I'm guessing that 2600 hp mustang wasn't big time since it was still running mass air? well mass air for the most part.

I fell to see how what I mentioned would negate all the benefits. I am assuming that your are saying that kevin could tune a speed density as easily as he could tune mass air? with mass air he wouldn't have to acount for every change in air or fuel flow.

I'm not argueing or trying to make it look like I know something, because I don't and my next project will hopefully be a efi big block.

edit- I'm wanting to do something like this, which will end up with probably a 6-7k motor easy (for my restore on the 79 bronco)
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=HLY%2D534%2D183&N=700+4294925239+4294840123+4294839074+115&autoview=sku

[CheapJeep]

http://www.affordable-fuel-injection.com/store.php?crn=212

[agjohn02]

not gonna read all of that, but... mass air for general use, speed density for high performance use.

[stx4wheeler]

yeah robbie i have seen that site and if i was gonna run tbi, then they would be a good bet for my money. a system like that takes so much of the guess work out of efi. I've been reading some more on efi today on fullsize bronco, and am slightly regurgitating(sp) info, but it seems i would need the tweceer or whatever it is called to get everything running better. Also most of the guys there that are running modified motors have spent countless hours fixing, tuning, and tweaking the ford stuff to get it right. i know garret in our club had lots of problems/tuning getting his 5.0 efi stuff swapped over and running correctly(basically using an early block and putting efi stuff on it just like what i would be doing with my motor), then i know when he built his efi 393 it was like a 4-5g's in parts/labor, and he was still having problems getting it tuned before he left.

By all means keep posting ideas and discussions on this, im gonna keep looking at stuff the next week or so. But it almost seems like the custom efi swap and tuning would take some of the reliability out of the truck for the first year or so of the efi swap, which is exactly what i dont want to happen to this project for fear that it will become like the pile of **** that i am cutting up, since i spent more time dicking with it that wheeling it.


Motor is 300 plus hp now, and 425 or so ft/lbs- rough guess's and i would like to jump it another 50hp or so in the future. so it wont be to crazy a further performance build