For those interested in the Texas River Access Issues

http://www.rockcrawler.com/landuse/d....asp?story=317

Does anyone else find it strange that the basis of this bill is that
motorized use of the riverbeds is not environmentally healthy yet the only people limited by this bill are the historical, recreational
users. The adjacent landowners (who do not own the flood plain or river bottom by Texas law) and commercial users are allowed to continue doing whatever they have been doing - as they damn well please.

Basically the only thing that changes is that the general public can be excluded by this bill.

That makes this a public access issue not an environmental issue.

- Shawn

I hope that doesn't go through.

Quote:

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who do not own the flood plain or river bottom by Texas law

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David, I am still looking for this law so I can carry it in my truck for the next time an officer hassles me.

it goes way back.

Texas law states that a land owner ownes to the middle of small creeks, and thing larger, he owns to the shore line and Texas ownes the rest, i.e. the middle.

I remember it from my real estate law class, but not where it was specificaly stated.

well I learned in my rangeland management class, that no one owns waterways. assuming something like a creek is large enough (can't remember what size) you can canoe right through someones property if you're staying in the water. and if you ever see any kind of fence over a creekbed to keep people from doing this you can report it because it's illegal, even on private property.

http://twri.tamu.edu/twripubs/WtrResrc/v6n6/text-1.html

Rights to Use Rivers
The lawful right of the public to travel along the navigable waters of the state, according to Templer, is settled beyond dispute. A much more difficult problem, however, is how to determine whether a stream is navigable or not.
There is no way to easily determine whether or not a particular stream is navigable and open to public use in Texas. Federal law identifies rivers which are navigable "in fact" as navigable "by law." Most states have adopted the federal definition of navigable rivers, but Texas has enacted an independent standard. The Texas legal definition has nothing to do with whether a boat can actually navigate the river.

A navigable stream in Texas is one with an average width of 30 feet from the mouth up. This means that streams which average 30 feet or more are owned by the State for the public use. Riverbeds or streams which do not average 30 feet from the mouth up are owned by the adjacent landowner. Even in these the water is owned by the state.

It has long been state policy to guard navigable streams from obstruction so as not to impede trade and travel. The Texas Supreme Court as early as 1863 ruled that: "Navigable streams exclusively within the state are beyond question the highways of the state."

Some Texas landowners continue, however, to maintain fences across streams. These fences are erected to keep livestock from wandering along the river when the water is low, but they make canoeing almost impossible along some sections. Low water bridges and irrigation dams also serve to keep canoeists from traveling "unimpeded," even though they, too, serve useful purposes for the landowners. The River Recreation Association of Texas has tried to summarize recreationists' rights to use rivers by explaining:

The laws of the state of Texas are vague concerning the rights of recreationists to use the rivers, streams, creeks, and bayous of Texas. Although the public's ownership of the water itself is never questioned, use of and access to that water may depend on whether the land under or around it is public or private. If it is public (generally speaking, the larger, navigable bodies of water), the public can use it. If it is private, legal authority says that the public cannot fish or boat there.

http://www.texasep.org/html/lnd/lnd_6riv.html



Texas has 191,228 miles of streams and rivers, and 11,247 rivers and streams have been given names by the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department.

Texas law, relying on the public-trust doctrine of English common law, has long recognized the public's right to use navigable streams for canoeing, swimming, and fishing. They are considered "highways of the state." Under Texas law dating from 1837, a river is considered navigable (and therefore open to public use) as long as its bed averages at least 30 feet wide from its mouth up.*

Erecting fences and other barriers across navigable rivers is forbidden. Hundreds of streams in Texas meet this navigability test. Unlike regulation of the coastal beaches, however, no state agency has day-to-day responsibility for protecting or securing the public's right of access to rivers. Moreover, no state agency has undertaken the task of identifying all these navigable streams. Limited budgets and the need for field investigations have made state agencies reluctant to respond to public inquiries about the navigability of streams.

The beds of navigable streams are generally owned by the sate, in trust for the public. Also, the state owns the beds of perennial streams, regardless of navigability, where the original land grant was made under the civil law prior to December 14, 1837. Under a 1929 law popularly known as the Small Bill, the state in some situations has relinquished to the adjoining landowner certain property rights in the bed of a navigable stream. However, the public may still use these navigable streams.*

Public access is limited even for the major rivers known to be navigable, such as the Brazos, Trinity, Colorado, and Guadalupe. Under state law, the right of access to lakes, streams, and rivers rests with the owners of the land that borders the surface water, and the majority of this "riparian" land is in private hands. Therefore, the public depends on public parks, boat ramps, or highway rights-of-way to gain access to rivers. A citizen survey conducted in 1987 showed that Texans wanted more public accesses.* Also, a 1990 TPWD survey of citizens and recreation professionals showed that 67 percent of the respondents wanted more public recreation areas along rivers and streams.*

Google: Texas Navigable Rivers

Google: Texas Navigable River Laws


but here's a good one from TPWD

If a River Runs Through It, What Law Applies?


Also noticed the Mancuso's name was on the list of the meeting in Austin. Way to represent Jimmy!

In short: Waterways (rivers/streams/lakes) are considered to be under public ownership under the condition that said waterway is "navigable" whether through FACT (ie. historical uses that are recorded) or through LAW, which states that if the river/stream averages at least 30 feet from the accretion bank to the erosional bank along the gradient boundary line.

Thanks,
I think that we should all carry these laws with us the next time we go to Llano, Cibolo, or the Nueces. Many of the officers responding to complaining landowners do not know the laws.

Thanks again

Keeping this thread alive.http://tx4x4.org/Texas%20Rivers.htm
Ingrid Hollinger is to be commended!