Project Mongo

Now I understand most of the time, these flanges are used in non critical areas. But Eckerts picture earlier in the thread got me to thinking about making a flange similar to the ones above, but with a piece of tube running inside to help provide extra support. It would be like sleeving the tube, but instead of welding it up, it would be bolt on, and hopefully would be stong enough to use in critical areas.

here is a paint drawing of the idea

http://tamor.us/members-rigs/albums/...ange.sized.jpg

In this case, there would be 2 pieces of tubing, say 1.75x.120 DOM, with flanges welded to the end of them. These flanges would have between 2-4 holes drilled in them (depending on what shape you went with) for bolts, and a single large hole, in the center. In this case the hole would be 1.5 so that a piece of the same diameter tube could be slid inside, and maybe plug welded on one side to keep it from moving after everything is together

So, and reason why that wouldn't work, and be stong enough for use in a critical area? And how long would the piece of tube inside need to be? Would 4 inches be enough? Or would 6 inches be better?

I'm not saying I would use one, but in a case like mine I could see where using a couple of these could make assembling and fully welding a cage together much easier. Plus thinking about stuff like this is much more entertaining then studying like I should be.

As for the flange, AA-MFG has one that would work pretty well for this application, though I would drill the bolts out to 3/8s at least for a little more piece of mind

http://www.aa-mfg.com/pdshop/shop/item.asp?itemid=956

I have never had a problem with my 4 inches... what???

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Originally Posted by CRaSHnBuRN

How about some prerunner lights :D

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showp...postcount=1677



btw, thats a joke

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I think the prerunner lights would look pretty good, as long as they're just the 4 or 6 inch lights, not those ginormous Hella lights some people use.


But what do I know....I like nekked lady mudflaps. :flipoff2:

how about theses they are super trick
http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/...&cat=58&page=1

or these like the ones you posted before but with 4 holes
http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/...p_89-1159.html

oh and w/ 4 holes it keeps the flange closer to the same size as the tube.

As far as the tube inside the flange i would keep it short maybe even 3 inches because it is going to add alot of stress where the inner tube ends

I think WHERE you put the flanges would be more critical than whether or not you "sleeve" them like you're talking about, though the sleeves couldn't hurt.

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Originally Posted by Gearhead61

I think WHERE you put the flanges would be more critical than whether or not you "sleeve" them like you're talking about, though the sleeves couldn't hurt.

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What the inner sleeves do is give you something else to resist shear forces at the flange other than the bolts. The design of the sleeve would need to consider the sheer force at the parting line of the flanges, and the bearing stress applied to the inside of the main tubes....which could cause the tubes and flange to split.

They also help to distribute the bending forces occuring at the flange, as if the tube was one piece.

I could see "where" being a factor if the case was a load that was always applied in a certain direction, but in the case of a roll it can be from any direction.

Yeah I understand why the sleeve would be in there (though that's a very good explanantion anyways!) but he'd mentioned earlier that most people only put them in non-critical areas (i.e. engine compartment where the added support between the shock towers/whatever else would be beneficial, but not necessary for the safety of the rig) so that's more what I was agreeing with. Man that doesn't even make sense to me, and I just wrote it...

Anyways, I understand (I'm actually doing pretty well in CVEN 305 right now) but I guess I just don't have enough experience with this sort of thing to be offering any helpful input haha.

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Originally Posted by Gearhead61

Yeah I understand why the sleeve would be in there (though that's a very good explanantion anyways!) but he'd mentioned earlier that most people only put them in non-critical areas (i.e. engine compartment where the added support between the shock towers/whatever else would be beneficial, but not necessary for the safety of the rig) so that's more what I was agreeing with. Man that doesn't even make sense to me, and I just wrote it...

Anyways, I understand (I'm actually doing pretty well in CVEN 305 right now) but I guess I just don't have enough experience with this sort of thing to be offering any helpful input haha.

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Yeah, that first paragraph is confusing :flipoff2:

But yes, the sleeve idea is to take the shear forces off the bolts, for added strength in critical areas, like the main legs in a cage.

As for non critical areas, where you put them does play a factor, as it would anywhere else. But the shear forces are of less concern, which is why most people seldom use more than two 3/8 bolts to connect those flanges.

The problem with designing stuff like for our sport is that you can spend all this time working on it, and the cage can still fail. There are just to many variables. A cage may survive a nasty roll, yet fail on a easy flop, just because of the terrian. The bottom bars on my buggy were 2 inch sch 80 (2.375 OD, .220 wall) that really took a beating, yet Rowdy put a nasty dent in them just moving the buggy 20 ft up a trail

You see, no matter what you do, science will never be able to quantitate the "Rowdy" factor. :D

yes

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Originally Posted by CRaSHnBuRN

http://tamor.us/members-rigs/albums/...ange.sized.jpg

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i bet you'd be really good at some actual modeling software. the fact that you are so good at paint is just sad though. :flipoff2:

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Originally Posted by DRAGOONRANCH

You see, no matter what you do, science will never be able to quantitate the "Rowdy" factor. :D

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Damn Skippy :flipoff2:

and you wonder why I won't let you drive the jeep

Even I cant **** up the jeep anymore than you can

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Originally Posted by DRAGOONRANCH

You see, no matter what you do, science will never be able to quantitate the "Rowdy" factor. :D

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Well everyone's gotta be good at SOMETHING...

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Originally Posted by Gearhead61

Well everyone's gotta be good at SOMETHING...

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Let's just say that nobody is better at being Rowdy than Rowdy. :gigem:

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Originally Posted by Reckless

Even I cant **** up the jeep anymore than you can

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He's got a point there Creighton. :flipoff2:

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Originally Posted by agjohn02

i bet you'd be really good at some actual modeling software. the fact that you are so good at paint is just sad though. :flipoff2:

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****, thats like ten minutes in paint. The drawings on the truck took less than 30 minutes. And yeah, I'm pretty good with most design software, but all I have access to right now is a older copy of autocad that has some problems with it. Not to mention its been so long since I used autocad that I'm pretty rusty. Now if I still had a working copy of Pro E, I would be in business. For some reason I could do stuff with that program that even the TAs couldn't do.

Enough talkie talkie already....start bendin some tube! :gigem:

i say, at 3:17 pm today, we all just concentrate really hard and picture the cage in our heads. maybe the collective will power of the club will build it for him. kinda like the ball turrent gunner and the shot off landing gear on that twilight zone episode.

**** yeah, you guys get on that. I want to see this thing done the next time I go home :flipoff2:

oh yeah. take care of the fender trimming and add some new paint while you'll are at it :flipoff2:

I hope to start on the cage right around or just after graduation, so I still have a few weeks of thinking and planning.

WTH, its past 3:17, and my dad says that no cage has magically appeared yet. You guys are falling down on the job here :mad:

okay, from the pics you guys can kinda see how tall the 4runner is on the 40 inch iroks. One mod that I did that I was kinda leary on was the 2 inch body lift. I never have like them much, but at the time I hoped that it would give me the room needed for a flatbelly without having to cut the floor (it didn't). I had hoped that when combined with relatively flat springs the truck would not be to tall. It came out pretty good, and the truck is still not huge, but its still a little higher than I would like. Should I remove the body lift? If I want to do it, now is the time to before I start welding on stuff like bumpers and a cage. At this point everything I did mod wise to match the bodylift (raised t-cases, moded steering shaft, dropped radiator, etc) could be easily changed back

oh yeah, I may leave the t-cases raised up and cut the floor to match now that its going to be a trail only rig. The only problems I can see with ditching the bodylift is of course the tires not fitting, but considering how the fenders will be cut, I don't think it will be a big deal. I may also push the axles forward or back more if needed

I'm not a big fan of body lifts either. Why don't you cut the floor and go for the flat belly?

EDIT: I'd pull the body lift and cut the floor and the fenders like you just said.

I may, but maybe not at this stage. It may wait until I try to link the rear. To much stuff, not enough time

pull it. body lifts are :rainbow:

just realized the rear shocks mounts would need to go to drop it, but they might when I cut the rear fender anyway.

If you're going to link it, is it that big a deal?

links will not happen any time soon. Thats a future project.

The shocks are currently like this /\ and I would like to mount them like this l l . When I cut the fenders it will be easier to build some mounts off the cage to accomplish this.

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Originally Posted by agjohn02

pull it. body lifts are :rainbow:

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...and trust it when John calls somethin :rainbow: , cause he is all about the ghey. :flipoff3:

Ballistic just started selling their ID tube clamps.

http://ballisticfabrication.3dcartst...p_21-1467.html

Cheaper than the camburgs, but still $35 a pop. Just another idea for your cage work decisions.

yeah, I've seen those at polyperformance I think. Its an option, but well out of my price range at this point

I just found this, and figured I would throw this in since this is another approach to the cage ideas we've been discussing here

http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/tacoma/taco75.JPG

http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/tacoma/taco77.JPG

Its the ballistic fab shop rig
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=558164

and if I ever narrow the front flip, I'm gonna use a taco grill. Thier's looks sweet

http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/.../tacofront.JPG

interesting front axle