there you go. you still need to doa leak down to fing out what the real problem is.
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there you go. you still need to doa leak down to fing out what the real problem is.
Where is Eaker Performance?
Phone book says:
2210 Maloney Av.
Bryan
Well...if its a stuck/burnt valve, last time i checked, the valves are in the heads...am i missing something? Basically....its hopefull thinking that its not the piston, rings or block. And they told me $250 at the most for both.Quote:
Originally posted by eight
Why do you think the problem is in the heads?
$350 to rebuild both heads seems pretty good to me.
This kinda goes along with what you're thinkin' i think Ryan, this is off of the www.ford-trucks.com forum:
"I had a '93 with the same problem on a road trip. I thought it was a burnt valve also. I blew a hole in the on the outside edge of the piston just above the rings. The piece fell down into the cylinder & scored the hell out of it. Long story short, needed a new short block."
:( :( :(
That's exactly what I'm thinking.
A burnt or stuck valve can NOT pressurize the crankcase.
Hey ryan i am gonna have to disagree with you on that one. A valve can cause that to happen. The valve seals could be worn out and blow by coming threw the vavle seal. They would put the pressure right into the valve cover area. And my old motor used to blow oil out of the valve cover breather. it leaked more oil out the valve cover than it burned.
My original thoughts were similar to what Mike is describing...valve stuck open causing the compression stroke to compress the entire valve cover, and since the breather tube comes out on the side i believed there to be a bad valve, it would just be pushing the oil that lubes the upper head out that breather, and also could be compressing down the runners that lead up to the top of the head.
BUT...
I did the compression test today with the help of Seth, Kate, and Landon stopped by on his way to class to run his mouth :D Here were the results:
#1 - 149 psi
#2 - 173
#3 - 161
#4 - 159
#5 - 35
#6 - 169
#7 - 165
#8 - 179
Adding a little oil to #5 then retesting compression brought it up to 58 or so. Bad ring? Can anyone let me borrow a compressor and valves i could do a leak down test on before I start to pull the head? Anyone got a driveway they dont need for a little while i could possibly borrow?
How much clearance do you think there would have to be between the valve stem and the guide to allow that much air to get by? It's only a few thousanths of an inch and the pressure is just exhaust pressure, not combustion pressure. I doubt enough could get by so that the pcv system could not handle it.
There should not be a problem even if there are no seals on the exhaust valves. Intake valve seals keep oil from being sucked into the head. Exhaust valve seals keep oil from leaking into the head. Those rubber seals are not intended to seal against hot exhaust gases. I rebuilt 2 honda atvs and they don't even have exhaust valve seals.
How does the pressure get into the valve cover area? There are passages for the oil pumped into the heads to drain back into the crankcase. Crankcase pressure goes up through them and out the pcv valve or the breather. Mike probably had a fair amount of blow-by from worn rings.
And what would any of this have to do with a valve being burnt or stuck?
I'm probably thinking wrong on how the valves are put together and work then. I see my mistake now though. I was thinking that the valves have openings into the top of the head but now realize that they just go to the ports, which, like you said, goes back into the intake or out the exhaust. What do you think of my test results?
There isn't much of a point in doing a leak down test. Your gonna have to pull that head off.
With only that much of a rise in compression when the oil was added, it's probably not rings. It would be unlikely for bad rings to cause that low of pressure anyway.
If it's a hole in the piston, I can tell you a way to fix it without pulling the motor that will save you from having to get a short block or a rebuild but only if the cylinder wall is still good. Maybe even help you with it.
Quote:
Originally posted by BigRedFord04
My original thoughts were similar to what Mike is describing...valve stuck open causing the compression stroke to compress the entire valve cover, and since the breather tube comes out on the side i believed there to be a bad valve, it would just be pushing the oil that lubes the upper head out that breather, and also could be compressing down the runners that lead up to the top of the head.
BUT...
I did the compression test today with the help of Seth, Kate, and Landon stopped by on his way to class to run his mouth :D Here were the results:
#1 - 149 psi
#2 - 173
#3 - 161
#4 - 159
#5 - 35
#6 - 169
#7 - 165
#8 - 179
Adding a little oil to #5 then retesting compression brought it up to 58 or so. Bad ring? Can anyone let me borrow a compressor and valves i could do a leak down test on before I start to pull the head? Anyone got a driveway they dont need for a little while i could possibly borrow?
If it would only be 1-2 days, you can do it at my house, not a huge driveway, but it would do, and I have some tools and shat.
I have a feeling it may be a little longer than that. Hensel has been kind enough to offer his place. Gonna get it strapped over there tomorrow afternoon and get started on taking the upper intake apart before i have to go to work. I'll keep y'all updated on what I find. Let me know John if you find those injector caps.
got the truck strapped over to Hensel's (thanks Nick) yesterday (i think?) and started workin' on it. got the upper intake taken off before i had to go to work. worked on it after work from 900-115am...got the entire wiring harness taken off the motor...all vacuum lines are out of the way. lower intake bolts all broken loose. driver's side valve cover taken off..VERY clean inside. the valve springs on cylinder #5 still seemed like they pulled the valves back well...couldnt see anything wrong thus far. going to the store later to pick up the special tool to disconnect ford fuel lines from the fuel rail and then i can pull the lower intake. I had to pull the distributor and really want to turn the motor over w/ the head still on just to see if the valves are moving (i.e. flat spot in the cam ? ) but dont know how much of a bitch it might be to reset the timing. any suggestions there? if the #5 cylinder is at the top of the stroke i'm going to have to turn it over anyway to see the whole cylinder. Is it really that big of a deal? After the intake is of its just head bolts and i'll see what i can see. i dont know how long i'll be over there today but if anyone wants to come you're welcome. 512.468.1604
i just got the driver's side head off...the piston on cylinder #5 is missing a piece about 1" long by <1/8" wide along the outside edge of the piston. gotta evaluate the financial situation before i progress anymore. would like to at least pull the motor if possible (although i know its not necessary) and re-ring all 8. Cylinder #5 needs some honing b.c. of very slight grooves, but i dont think it actually needs to be bored out. If money permits, should i try to have the heads redone also? 127K miles. I need a beer. :( :confused: :(
Ok...i've got a few different options I'm looking at and would like to see what everyone thinks of them. I want to basically rebuild the motor which means taking it out.
1st Problem: Need somewhere to do it that has proper equipment and where i could leave my truck for a little while. Jimmy M. has offered a 1-ton come-along so i just need somewhere w/ really tall doors and something i can lift from.
2nd Problem: What all i need to do? Obviously all gaskets and the bad piston. Rings, it appears are only sold in sets so I might as well use them all. If I have to take the rod off to take disconnect the bad piston, i might as well replace that bearing, and i know its best to replace all rod bearings together so why not, right? Once i get that far couldnt hurt to replace the main bearings. I'd really like to have the heads redone, and it should be cheaper than quoted just cuz it doesnt appear there's a lot wrong w/ them. Should i replace the pushrods and lifters? The lifters are surprisingly expensive ($150 for all 16) and i'm guessing its b.c. they're hydraulic. Is there anything at all I'm missing?
3rd Problem: Should I try to do it myself or have Vilas do it? I've never rebuilt an engine before and would basically be going by what the Haynes tells me. I read about all the really precise tolerances that all the bearings and rings have to be within' today and have no clue how i'd go about checking that. If i were to do it, would anyone with experience here be willing to help?
i REALLY NEED suggestions here. i'd prefer to have Vilas assemble the motor and i just pull it and put it in myself, then i can blame someone other than myself if it f*cks up. I dont really trust a short block from Ho'Reilly b.c. i've heard the quality is shoddy and that its rare to get a long time out of them, which i need b.c. i plan on keeping this truck for a long time. Also, rebuilding looks to be cheaper anywayThanks to everyone who has helped thus far (esp. residents of the Hensel house) and thank you in advance for any help to come.
-Austin
Throw in a new cam while you're in there. Better power and mileage. For the pushrods, just make sure they're straight.
Crane Powermax for Computerized Engine- $147 with lifters Jegs pt # 270-364112
if your gonna replace all that stuff and leave it stock, you might as well get a premium long block and slap it back in. i paid like 600 or so for mine. and it is pretty easy to do. if you had a shop i could help you do it.
for a premium long block from city motor supply in dallas, it is $845 for the motor and a $300 core. they are the ones i have heard alot of good things about and that is where i got my motor from. the warrenty on them is 1 month 1000 miles if its in a truck and 12 months 12000 miles in a car. before you wonder why its so low in a truck is cause they have to remember that some of these motors go in work trucks that get abused all the time. the only problem i had with my motor is i burned up the valves in the number 8 cylindar. this was due to my failure to connect the equalizer tube on the back of the motor. this happened at 8 months and about 8000 miles. they gave me replacement heads for free with the exception of core on the burned up one.
if it were me i would go with a premium long block
Rebuild kits are not that expensive. Summit has a rebuild kit for 269.00 that includes 6 pistons, main, cam, and rod bearings, all gaskets, freeze plugs, oil pump, rings, plastigage and assembly lube. Or you could probably get one cheaper from PAW that didn't have all the pistons. I rebuild my first car engine (i've rebuild a few motorcycle engines) this summer which was a Buick 225 V-6 and I had no problems with it, only resource i needed was how to torque down the head bolts. My dad helped a lot, but a book or something would probably be enough. You might even be able to find a write up on the internet. All we did was hone the cylinders and it runs fine. Might as well have a three angle done on the heads too, i had the heads done on the v-6 and it was $10 per seat for hardened seats (which you don't need) and $35 a head for labor at a place in Dallas. :D
900 bucks is a lot of money... I may need a long block in my EB too... I will give everyone the details later tonight or tomorrow morning...have a lot of pics, so I'll start another thread.
Just remember if you decide to rebuild it yourself: lots of assembly lube on everything, keep everything as clean as you can, don't hit the crank with the rods, check ring spacing with a feeler guage and torque everything to specs.
I had fogotten that you can get cam kits that come w/ lifters. I'd been wanting a minor cam for a while and the price I can get thru work on a cam kit isnt too bad. i might have to do that.
$900 for a new long block is A LOT more than i'm looking @ spending on this.
the part i was particularly worried about in doing it all myself are the clearances and such...my haynes has all the torque specs, but what else do i need to know to do it RIGHT?
To check the tolerances you can get a gauge at the autostore called something like plastigauge. All it is a small thread of plastic that you put it in between the bearings and the crank and torque the bolts down, then you undo the bolts and you check how wide the thread is compared to a chart. This works to find out what the clearances are when you can not use a feeler gauge.
Quote:
Originally posted by Krawler68
900 bucks is a lot of money... I may need a long block in my EB too... I will give everyone the details later tonight or tomorrow morning...have a lot of pics, so I'll start another thread.
it would be closer to 700 for the one for your bronco dougie...
Austin quoted me 930 from O'reilly's... My poor bronco's motor has issues... I still ahven't been able to download pics...hopefully I'll get them up tonight.
Doug
Vilas told me they could check and clean my entire motor, all new bearings, replace the bad piston, re-ring all 8, check the heads, etc, etc...all for about $150 (i provide parts), and the more disassembled the motor is when i take it in the cheaper it will be for me. So, that being said, i need to gather parts, and pull the motor. depending on how fast i can get parts and find a way to pull my motor, i might be able to get it all back together next weekend. I'll keep y'all updated. If anyone can help in any way i'll love you forever. i'm paying hensel w/ a big tittied blonde my g/f is bringin' down next time she comes...might be able to work out something similar for anyone else who's interested :D
Hey, when did I become the TAMOR pimnptress?
sweet... just let me know ahead of time so I can kick all other prospects to the curb for the weekend. :D
It'll be next sem sometime... but, we have her in the reserves now. We tattoed "Jason's b!tch" on her butt just in case she got away
"...in any event....." -Doug :rolleyes:
quickly translated as... "what you're saying is of NO consequence to ANYONE involved in this conversation other than yourself, and I could not care any less about what you are babbling about..."
just a rough translation, but I think that was what I meant when I used to say "In any event"...
In any event...
Doug
are you talking?
In any event... I was working on my EB this weekend... it's really messed up... :D
to quote DOUG himself
:flipoff2:
In any event thank you for this opportunity to pad my way past your worthless Boytoy...
ha, that makes it all ok. Here's another chance.
chance for what?
IN ANY EVENT....STFU!!
this is not the kitchen.
i can do whatever i want...this is MY thread, fag