can y'all give me some info about them? how strong are they? width, etc?
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can y'all give me some info about them? how strong are they? width, etc?
i know a guy that has a couple pair ;)
Hey, I know that guy! Wait...
Mine have been converted to disk and are 74" WMS--WMS IIRC. Strength wise I'd say they fall somewhere between a Dana 60 and a Rockwell 2.5 ton. 7.56:1 final ratio (3.54:1 R&P and 2.13:1 portal reduction), and @6" ground clearance sitting on the rotors. For more info tryhttp://www.exaxt.ca/axle.asp. Pretty good FAQ page, but remember he sells 'Mog axles so it isn't exactly objective.
The biggest problem people run into with fitting these is the pinion length, which you'll read about on the above link.
Nathan the gears will be way too low for your DD
Andy are you putting a set under one of your trucks?
Someday, many many moons from now they'll probably find their way under a CJ-7 I have in a corner.Quote:
Originally Posted by uglyota
EDIT: My axles:
http://www.offroadrepublic.com/galle...lbum03/aad.jpg
ugh...those are beautiful.
are they 404s? is that a torque-tube conversion or is that what they came with?
why'd you buy two steering axles? ;) :D
edit-read your link and got most of the answers...a mog-9 gives you a lot shorter pinion, right? Is it that much more expensive?
so why'd you buy two steering axles? :D
wtf is portal reduction?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cajun
why's that?Quote:
Originally Posted by uglyota
edit: are there any solutions for that pinion length?
mog axles have gears at the ring and pinion (normal) as well as a set of gears (the other reduction) that move the drive forces from the centerline of the diff to the centerline of the hub (at the portals). I think andy's 7.56 is a pretty common final axle ratio for mog axles (maybe the highest final ratio you can get for them?). The lowest gears that are even available for most domestic axles are what, 5.71? You're gonna be running some serious rpms at 70mph unless you're running really huge tires.
Look up mog-9 for pinion length solutions
here's a sketch to kind of give you an idea on what's going on inside a mog axle. I have to thank Wolverton for the copy of Etch-a-sketch version 14.0 that was used to create this beautiful and descriptive diagram.
didnt even notice that in the pic. what kinda size tires would you have to run to get that into normal ranges? ~44? what kinda price range are they?
With 48s and overdrive you'd run about 2900 rpm at 70mph.
If you have a pair of these axles laying around I can dispose of them for you.
Yup, the torque tubes have been eliminated in favor of a standard pinion flange. Why do you think I bought two steering axles?Quote:
Originally Posted by uglyota
:gigem:
Since the Mog9 uses a Ford 9 center section, the pinion length is standard Ford issue, much easier to swing under shorter wheelbase vehicles than that Benzo monstrosity. It also allows you a MUCH greater selection of gears and lockers, though factory Mog selectable locker is pretty sweet.
EDIT: The only solutions for pinion length are to use a different center section, such as a Ford 9 (the Mog9 that Eric mentioned). I *think* the final drive ration on all 404s were the same, but there were a couple of different R&P/portal combinations to get there. Some of the other Mog axles such as the 416 or U1300 have lower gears. For the ultimate sweetness, the U1300 is where it's at, think rockwell strength in a portal axle. However, the monster brakes necessitate 20" wheels.
what do those run price wise?
My keyboard is sticky. :(
what if you got a mog9 axle and then got a custom gear set from a bonneville speed shop. like some low ratio of 2.5:1?
I dont know if these are the mog9's yall are talking about but the guy who won the 2002 top truck challenge had a set of ford 9" axles with unimog outers in his bronco buggy. I've read that in addition to the wide gear selection, the third member of the 9" center has to be flipped upside down so the wheels will rotate the right direction and also, bam, high pinion. Pimp stuff.
The pinion is high enough already. Then you have to start worrying about your driveshaft hitting things.
you have to flip it so that when you have it in a forward gear it doesnt go in reverse. the portals have only two gears. therefore a normally rotating third member would have several "reverse" gears and one "forward" gear
but there's no way to get them with less than like 6 or 7:1 ratio?
Grayson, I would think any available gearset for the Ford 9 would work with the Mog outers in a Mog9.
Flipping the 9 inch center section isn't quite that simple, measures need to be taken to ensure proper oiling.
Nathan, I paid $6300 for 2 completely rebuilt steering axles with custom billet hubs, 13" rotors, Wilwood calipers, and the pinion conversion. They can be had for considerably less, or considerably more, depending on the options you choose. I bought mine in '01, and since they're more popular for rock crawling the prices may have changed.
not that ive heard of cause of the two types of gearing the axle has
do stock 9" come with any higher than 3.54 gearing? If not, then gearing is not a good reason to go mog-9
you can get 2.73 gears or around there. just look at other vendors besides the ones that cater to the offroad crowd. If you can search for a speed shop that sells parts for bonneville speedsters then you may find something lower. A lot of bonneville cars run ratios in the 2.5 range, they are so low (numerically) that they need a push start to get them rolling, often they are pushed up to 40-60 moh before they let out the clutch in first gear! ...and this is w/ relatively short tires in the 28 inch range.
bunch of pics of mog axles in the bruiser buildup
or
http://www.texasoffroad.net/galleries/lonestar/album117
a 9" gets weaker with higher gears tho, right?
All axles get weaker with higher gears because the pinion size gets smaller. The beauty of the mog axles is that they have reduction at the hubs, so they don't need much reduction in the diffs.
I meant higher gears, as in less reduction, lower numerically, i.e. I am asking if on a 9" a ratio of 1:3.55 weaker than 1:4.88,
Toy axles get weaker with lower (higher numerically, more reduction) gears, i.e. on a toy axle 1:4.10 is stronger than 1:5.29
I think it varies by axle, though I don't think you're gonna break anything with less than half the stress being put through it vs standard single-reduction axles
the beauty is that in any normal situation the r&p will only see about half the torque the tires can put to the ground. however, if you get a tire stuck in a crack, you can still put the same amount of torque on the r&p that any axle would see.
Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by uglyota
and over twice as much at the wheels :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by agjohn02
so nutz is wrong?Quote:
Originally Posted by bburris
;) :D
Are you trying to say that a 9" with 3.55s is WEAKER than with 4.88s?
Yes.
Please explain.
as the pinion changes size, so does the thickness of the ring. im sure the happy medium is somewhere in between, but im sure there are weak points on both ends of the spectrum. offroaders just deal with the small pinion end of the spectrum. we dont worry about the thin ring end of it.
I think that's right...like ring gear thickness is the weak point on a 9", whereas ring tooth thickness is the weak point on a high numeric ratio 8"
Have you ever seen how thick a 9" ring gear is?
"weak point" is a relative term
to contradict brett, no a 3.54 is stronger than 4.88Quote:
Originally Posted by uglyota
a 3.54:1 will have better gear mesh than a 4.88:1. more teeth on the pinion. the only way for it to be stronger is to go up in ring gear size.
think of it this way, (chadnutz touched on it) on 3.54:1 you will have more teeth spreading the torque load than you would on a 4.88:1 b/c the 4.88 needs less teeth to spin the diff/ring gear slower.
and no I'm not talking about chicks from Beaumont! :flipoff2:
grayson's mesh area theorum is correct, but to add to it i think a lot of what pinion strength has to do with is the length of the moment arm created by the size of the pinion. for a given torque input to the pinion: the smaller the pinion, the smaller the moment arm, this requires the force on the gear teeth to be greater in order to transmit said torque. like a lever, try to move 500lbs with a short lever and try it with a long lever. see which is easier.
whereas on the ring gear the moment arm is constant, the only change is the ring gear thickness. however, it transmits its torque through the frictional forces between it and the carrier. so, i dont think ring thickness is as detrimate to strength as pinion size. so, because of this and what grayson said, im gonna say the higher (lower numerically) you go the stronger it will be, up to a certain point of course.