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i want to move the front axle forward 3 or 4 inches, but i don't know what i should do about the steering, if i go hyrdo-assist, then i still have to move the gear box and if i go full hydro then i just have to mount the ram, but full hyrdo has its drawbacks also, what are ya'lls opinions?
Go full hydro, but DON'T go with a single ended ram... they put WAY too much force on steering arms... Spend the money to get a cool double ended ram and have a professional mount it.
If you go full hydro make sure that all your Char-Lynn valve, pump, dist. valve (right name?), and ram are valved the same... if they aren't you could have A LOT of problems on your hand. I would suggest gutting an old tractor.
3" wont be a problem for high steer arms. I've seen it done on daily drivers without high steer
oh, and jackasses, hydraulic assist is a factory option, you're talking about ram assist. get it right you morons :D
sorry, and if i move the front axle forward 3", then it makes the drag link point more forward rather than parrell to the tie rod, and i found a tractor junk yard kindna near my house, so that's where i got the idea, i could use all that **** and get it for real cheap
If this is going to be a trail only rig, go full hydro. I don't know what sort of axle you're running up front, but you'll probably want to beef up the knuckles, especially if it's not a 1 ton front. Proceeding along this line of thought, you'll be fine with a single ended ram. While not as bling bling as a double, it works, and it's a helluva lot cheaper. Your steering won't be balanced, that is it'll take more turns one way than the other, but it's just a matter of getting used to it.
If it's going to see street time, go ram assist.
it'll have limited street drivin, mostly around town, just to have something w/ no top on nice days, and i'm using a scout d44 front w chevy knuckles
Hal's single ended ram actually broke his steering arm. I have never heard of such complaints from double ended ram.
I would most definetely suggest double ended ram...everyone that has done full-hydro that I've talked to has prefered it.
Full hydro single or double isn't that bad on the street.
Hal's single ended ram didn't break his steering arm. What broke Hal's steering arm was the psi that the ram produced. It doesn't matter if it's single ended, double ended, or has 17 ends. He's lucky it didn't break his knuckle.Quote:
Originally posted by Krawler68
Hal's single ended ram actually broke his steering arm. I have never heard of such complaints from double ended ram.
As for street driving, I'm not saying it's bad. Hell, it's probably an improvement over some of our current setups. The CJ I had in high school had a 1/4 turn of play in the wheel. If anyone asked to drive my Jeep, they only did it once.:D
What is true about full hydro is that as you step up to larger volume pumps and more powerful rams, it tends to become very sensitive to steering wheel input. Not so bad around town, but it is exaggerated by highway speeds. Also, if you are found to be the cause of a wreck you open yourself up to a lot of liability, as the DOT jury is still out on it's legality AFAIK.
My impression is that if the ram isn't spaced properly it will exert more force on an arm than a double ended euivalent... This is merely knowledge imparted on me by individuals who actually run double ended rams and may have been trying to "smear" the good name of single ended rams... :D who knows...I just went assist... because I'm a big *****...
I see what you're saying, I just don't understand why that would be true. My understanding of the advantage of a double-ended ram was that it was balanced, the same # of turns from center to lock both ways. A single ended ram is is different "pushing" than "pulling".
I just don't see why the "pushing" force exerted by a single ended ram would be any different than a double ended one.
However, I'm hardly the expert on this, and have no first hand knowledge.
Do they push and pull at the same time?
Doug, how much did they charge for the ram-assist? Im kinda leanin toward that because if something does go wrong i still have some steering ability
and if i do go full hydro, then i'll probably just buy all new parts because i don't want something to break and be w/out steering whatsoever
if you go full hydro all you'de really NEED new were a ram and hoses... the rest is pretty bulletproof.
I can't really say what Matt charged me for my assist steering, but I think the standard price for a steering box rebuild, porting, hoses, ram, and mounting brackets is something like $450... check their website...
www.westtexasoffroad.com
I'd highly recommend them for this... EVERYONE who has actually used them LOVES Matt the owner, and has thought REALLY highly of his work.
$450 ain't too bad.
i think i'm goin to go ram assist, i emailed him yesterday, and i'm goin to send him my gear box and pump and just buy the whole kit rather than try to piece it together
If I had a SFA I would do the same. You could have bought a locker for that price though.
if a frog had a glass ass he'd only hop once, but you don't have a solid axle yet, and i'm probably goin to drop in a lock right soon after the steering **** gets done, i'll just have to see
"If ifs and buts were candy and nutz we'd all have a very merry Christmas" Landon Reneau
I know I'm coming into this a little late, but:
If this is for a trail only or trail 95% of the time rig I would recommend full hydro as Doug has suggested.
I would not get a double ended ram though, I would get two rams working together. I've heard this is cheaper, AND more reliable.
My steering is cool going right while the ram is pushing, but while pulling it's a little rough. That's why I would suggest getting a set-up that pushes in both directions.
As for my own set-up I don't think it was the reason the knuckle broke, and it was the actual knuckle that broke. The reason I don't think the ram was at fault was because of how the crack was on the inside of the knuckle.
I wouldn't do full hydro on anything you plan on driving above 40mph. It gets really sensitive. You'll also have to find a "Special" inspection station that won't notice it.
Now if you are set on ram-assist, and still want to move your axle forward can you not just get a hi-steer arm where you can attach the draglink behind the axle? I know people put the tie-rod behind the axle, so why not just run the tie-rod in front and the draglink behind it?
Hal
what are the advantages of this over an AGR steering box? Just curious b.c. Dan Reed got an AGR and he said after installed he could turn his wheel with one finger. they're about the same cost evidently and dont come with a bunch of "kustom" fab work needed to install.
Hal, the reason for no drag link behind the axle if you turn the wheel to the left, then it'll turn the vehicle right, draw it out on a piece of paper, it'll make more sense
Austin, the AGR rock ram set ups is about 3x's as much, and if he's just talkin about the AGR gear box and pump, then it isn't goin to help me in movin the axle forward 2"
The same price? A full AGR "Rock Ram" setup will set you back just under $1000. The "Redneck Ram", WTOR's equivalent, comes in at half that.
yea I figured there was a simple reason no one was doing it... oh well I tried to make the decision simpler... If only you could point the pitman arm out instead of in...Quote:
Originally posted by aggielr
Hal, the reason for no drag link behind the axle if you turn the wheel to the left, then it'll turn the vehicle right, draw it out on a piece of paper, it'll make more sense
I've installed both an AGR box and their Super pump or whatever it's called. I can't turn my tires worth a damn off-road, and have broken the box off the frame twice. It is NOTHING compared to full asist, and honestly from my own experience and from what I've heard I will never buy another thing from AGR.Quote:
Originally posted by BigRedFord04
what are the advantages of this over an AGR steering box? Just curious b.c. Dan Reed got an AGR and he said after installed he could turn his wheel with one finger. they're about the same cost evidently and dont come with a bunch of "kustom" fab work needed to install.
Hal
you wont buy from them because it broke off the frame? whose fault is that?Quote:
Originally posted by Krawler68
I've installed both an AGR box and their Super pump or whatever it's called. I can't turn my tires worth a damn off-road, and have broken the box off the frame twice. It is NOTHING compared to full asist, and honestly from my own experience and from what I've heard I will never buy another thing from AGR.
Hal
I've had nothing but good experience with AGR. I've only dealt with Jeff and he's definately a wheeler, not just a salesman.
well one option would be to move the gear box back a few inches, put the pitman arm facing front, put drag link behind the axle, but that sounds like a hella lotta work
i'm probably just goin to use hi-steer arms w/ the ram-assist, see how that works out, if it sucks, then i'll go full hydro, but it should be ok as i'm only movin it 1 or 2 inches, or may just leave it where it is, we'll see when i start measure ****
Dan did have to send back his 1st pump b.c. it was leaking @ the input shaft :rolleyes: It only ran him like $400 if i do recall correctly.
did Dan get the rock ram set up, or just an agr pump and gear box?
just the pump and gear box i believe
i'm goin to get the ram (which is what i want) cause cj steering set ups pretty much suck in thier stock form, ****ty gear box mounting, and the total for a gear box rebuild, pump rebuild, ram and lines is $450
actually I'm still running the stock pump. i just bought the new gearbox. got it for about $370. havent had the chance to use it off road yet. but it a helluve lot easier to turn my truck than it is to turn my parents cars. its great so far. but as Austin said, i did have to replace the first one. for free of course. fluid was pouring out at the pitman arm shaft seal or whatever that is actually called. other than that, it is great so far.
I agree. AGR has been nothing but good to me. I bought one of thier first Super Boxes and it lasted 7 years without any issues. I sent it back to them reciently due to a small leak and got it back totally refurb'd at no charge. It also helped me break a knuckle off my mighty Dana 30.Quote:
Originally posted by robertf03
you wont buy from them because it broke off the frame? whose fault is that?
I've had nothing but good experience with AGR. I've only dealt with Jeff and he's definately a wheeler, not just a salesman.
I have run it with a steering box brace which has kept the steering tight and the frame uncracked. I credit it with keeping my Jeep tolerable at 70+mph despite being tall and Detroited.
Of course my tires are relativly small. I would expect it to start getting overworked with anything over 37" tires.
BTW: Don't buy the box without the pump. The stock pump wont keep up with the box causing slow steering.
-Mark
I am amused nobvody else has had problems with AGR... I have heard a lot of bad things about service and quality on a lot of their recent work they have turned out.
Doug "**** Hal talk it's hard to keep up with where you been" Kiesewetter