Hydro steering assist on the cheap?

[Graystroke]

I saw this this past wekend at one of my Dad's friend's shop. He had a '64 Studebaker Avanti R3 with the engine out. He was replacing the steering with a rack and pinion set-up. Anyways, as you can see the steering is pretty Rube Goldbergish. But ,it has to be stable (and work) b/c these cars did over 160mph from the factory new!...In 1963 I might add. He said the box, which goes near the firewall is just a plain manual box w/ a quicker ratio 16:1 P/S and 22:1 non-P/S. You can barely make out the pitman arm in the sketch. A la Land Cruiserish w/ the box close to the firewall mounted on the the frame rail. The valve is a slide type valve and the drag link going forward/backward in the end of the valve controls the flow to the ram on the front bell crank mounted in the center of the cross member. My idea was to use a power steering box and this same set-up w/ a ram and either a hot rodded pump or a bigger (more GPH) P/S Pump. This way you would have P/S and hydro assist.
What do you think? He said they also used this same style P/S on early '60's fords. It has to be pretty adaptable b/c I was at a Stude meeting and a guy drove up in a 1929 Hudson and had adapted this same set-up from an Avanti to this car.
I'm guessing that this set-up would be ok to drive on the road-which is what I'm shooting for.
Another idea that I had was to do the same thing similar with an electronically controlled soleniod valve to shut off the flow to the ram. I'm guessing you would need two valves and two return lines. one for the ram to open the flow from both ends to make it easy to turn in both directions and the other back to the pump/reservoir from where the flow was shut off. I'm thinking you could use regular power steering on the road and switch on the ram (open/ shut the valves) in the rough stuff.
I think I'm going to try it and see how it works. Who wants to be the test driver!

[Graystroke]

Whoops forgot the pic
1308-99 is the pitman arm from the box
1308-79 is the control valve for the power steering and feeds a variable amount of pressure to the ram

Where the word "TO" is where the bell-crank would connect to a split tie-rod behind the cross member.
The ram is at the front of the vehicle in case you're wondering.

[Graystroke]

nobody in all of TAMOR has any input. Is this too much tech?!

[robertf03]

nobody in all of TAMOR has any input. Is this too much tech?!

I think you are trying to reinvent the wheel in the offroad world. Seems like it works the same as traditional ram assist steering, but pushes on the pitman arm/idle arm instead of the steering knuckle.

I'd rather just bolt it up to the steering knuckle, and here is why I think that:

I have to get a custom highsteer arm anyway, so why not incorporate that into the ram assist rather than trying to kluge a front to back steering setup together, or forge a custom pitman arm?

also, if you have steep tierod angles, the ram could help shorten their life fasst if you push on them up top at full drop, rather than inline with the axle tubes.

[Graystroke]

I don't want to use the pitman arm set-up. I was wanting to just use the valve and a similar ram to work on the tie-rod (just like current ram assist) I'm thinking with this set-up that the steering wouldn't be over sensitive and scary at speed. I've driven old tractors with a ram assist and they are scary as **** at 20mph. I guessing/wondering if this valve used on avantis has better (smaller) more controlled opening increments thus making the vehicle handle and be more stable at hwy speeds. wasn't trying to reinvent the wheel...just making it better, it would be the BASF design of hydro steering.

[uglyota]

how would you use a push-pull box like that without using the pitman arm?
even if it IS hydro assist, you're still converting from xover to push-pull, a step in the wrong direction.
I don't know much about this, or on anything about doing it to non-yotas, but I think it's pretty easy to mess with the valving in the box, drilling orifices and adjusting springs and such...here's some links:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...hreadid=167299
http://www.wildyoats.com/hydraulic_assist_tech.htm
Oh, and to turn the ram on or off, wouldn't you have to put it through a bypass, like a "float" mode (not just shut the valve at the box)?

[robertf03]

aren't the ram's in float mode until the steering box bypass is triggered?

[usmcagg02]

forgot to mention, my dad used to work for agr. i dont know how much he knows about this but you can give him a call and maybe he could help ya out. let me know if you want his number

[Graystroke]

how would you use a push-pull box like that without using the pitman arm?
even if it IS hydro assist, you're still converting from xover to push-pull, a step in the wrong direction.
I don't know much about this, or on anything about doing it to non-yotas, but I think it's pretty easy to mess with the valving in the box, drilling orifices and adjusting springs and such...here's some links:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...hreadid=167299
http://www.wildyoats.com/hydraulic_assist_tech.htm
Oh, and to turn the ram on or off, wouldn't you have to put it through a bypass, like a "float" mode (not just shut the valve at the box)?

Reread my post... I mention two valves one would close and the other would open up on the ram. as to the valve for the ram all you would have to do (if the ram is not in float mode like flem said) is link both ends of the ram to give the fluid a path take some out put some in on the other end. as to the direction of the pitman arm, I would use a horizontal one like a chevy saginaw box and mount the valve at or near the box pitman arm. The drag link would just have an extended threaded end that would mate w/ the valve slide. The valve doesn't care which way is up, it's under pressure Come on grad student, put some of my tax dollars to work in that brain of yours...think outside the box...the pic was just to show what kind of components are involved.

[jerryg79]

Come on grad student, put some of my tax dollars to work in that brain of yours...think outside the box...

Wouldn't you need some sort of income to pay tax on, in order to call yourself a "tax payer"?

PS. I think this is a horrible idea!

[Graystroke]

here's a sketch of what I'm talking about:

[uglyota]

so how much does valve number 1308-79 cost? I guess this whole thread is about whether or not this valve will work? Cheaper than building and tapping a box for hydro? Also looks like you've got the box back up front? Might think about assisting a steering arm instead of your tie rod, too!