Page 1 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 108

Thread: Anti-Wrap Front and Rear

  1. #1
    Chubby Bunny davido's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    College Station, TX
    Posts
    4,244

    Anti-Wrap Front and Rear

    Well I definitely need a solution for both. I looked around Pirate briefly and found a few things. The rear is easy, I'm looking at making one like Sam's Offroad. I have plenty of room opposite the muffler to set it up. It's a "ladder" type bar with two hardmounts at the axle and a shackle at the skidplate.


    http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billav...ntiwrapbar.htm

    The front is a different story. Because of the shackle reversal, a ladder type would have to attach by shackle to the front. My tie rod is behind the axle, so that's a plus. But I still have the diff on one side, the winch in the middle, and the steering box on the other site. I have enough space on the axle tube to mount it outside of my springs, but my wheels already hit my spring when I turn so the frame end would have to be mounted to somewhere between the springs.

    If I'm going to use a ladder type for the front, that leaves me with a shackle hanging down, which I don't want. I did find a couple of possibilities.



    Question: Do these actually work? I saw that several people have them, but I'm not convinved that this wouldn't A. limit articulation or B. eliminate wrap. And with the trivetrain components that I have, I need something that totally eliminates the wrapping stress on the springs, not just limits it.

    This was a totally different type if setup.

    http://www.jeepaholics.com/tech/bambar/


    I'd have to look to see if I even have the space for this, but it's an interesting option.

    Any other ideas?
    Last edited by davido; 10-18-2005 at 11:41 AM.
    The disco ball in my mouth, insinuates I'm ballin'

  2. #2
    lo veo TxCruzr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Arizonaaaaah
    Posts
    2,223
    Look for High5 on por...I'm almost positive he has one on this front axle and its a SR too. I know I have it saved somewhere, I'll look this afternoon after my test
    "Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter."

    '69 FJ-40, chevy383, sm420, 37's, RedNeckRam
    '08 Tundra SR5 Poser Douche Rig on 35's

  3. #3
    Rawr TexTJ209's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Waco, Tx
    Posts
    3,606
    The Jeepaholics guys seem to have good success with the Bambar, from what I've heard them talking about it.

  4. #4
    Registered User uglyota's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    .
    Posts
    12,659
    that bar looks like it would bind badly if the geometry wasn't exactly perfect. That's why everybody runs a shackle at the frame end these days.
    look here: http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/4R_suspe...l#Update-part2
    for ideas on anti-wrap leaves like the allpro packs have. I have been running something similar in the back and it worked well, but I have some more kinked leaves so maybe I didn't get it quite right...
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy View Post
    damnit... if everyone is leaving i want my original 15 back... i dont wanna be left with these tools

  5. #5
    D-FENS agjohn02's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Cowtown
    Posts
    11,900
    the billavista one is good except the lower link should extend all the way to the front joint, like andy's does. just look at andy's and copy it. shorten the top if you want like we talked about. the jeepaholics one will limit travel and cause the pinion to pitch downward when drooped. not a good idea to take ideas from jeep guys.

  6. #6
    Chubby Bunny davido's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    College Station, TX
    Posts
    4,244

    That guy is pretty smart. He's the one that built my steel shims for the front. I like the shock idea. I had a similar one drawn up for my 4Runner but it never got that extreme (plus longer shocks came out in time). Anyway, I have two concerns with that setup:

    1. It doesn't seem like it would help when backing up, just when going forward.
    2. It seems as though it would need to be a pretty stout leaf on there because of the amount of leverage I put on it. A thick leaf on top would be very bad for droop (which is all I have in the way of flex).


    John, a couple of things:

    1. Why do both arms have to go all the way to the end? I realize that it has to be something strong to prevent from bending (either permanently or just temporarily under load), but besides that is there any other reasoning to have them both run all the way to the shackle end?

    As a side note, I was thinking that they needed to be heims or something similarly hard mounted at all ends. But after looking around, a lot of the designs use rubber bushings at several places which I would think would give it as much or more play under load than the deflection of a single shaft (like in the Billavista design).

    2. If that's the case on the Jeepsaholic one, then if I used it on my front (with shackle reversal) it should actually move the pinion UP, not down down as it droops. Right?
    The disco ball in my mouth, insinuates I'm ballin'

  7. #7
    D-FENS agjohn02's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Cowtown
    Posts
    11,900
    Quote Originally Posted by davido
    That guy is pretty smart. He's the one that built my steel shims for the front. I like the shock idea. I had a similar one drawn up for my 4Runner but it never got that extreme (plus longer shocks came out in time). Anyway, I have two concerns with that setup:

    1. It doesn't seem like it would help when backing up, just when going forward.
    2. It seems as though it would need to be a pretty stout leaf on there because of the amount of leverage I put on it. A thick leaf on top would be very bad for droop (which is all I have in the way of flex).
    are you talking about this pic?




    that an anti-wrap spring only. the shock is a steering stabilizer. it would help a little but i think you want a bar set-up.



    Quote Originally Posted by davido


    John, a couple of things:

    1. Why do both arms have to go all the way to the end? I realize that it has to be something strong to prevent from bending (either permanently or just temporarily under load), but besides that is there any other reasoning to have them both run all the way to the shackle end?

    As a side note, I was thinking that they needed to be heims or something similarly hard mounted at all ends. But after looking around, a lot of the designs use rubber bushings at several places which I would think would give it as much or more play under load than the deflection of a single shaft (like in the Billavista design).

    2. If that's the case on the Jeepsaholic one, then if I used it on my front (with shackle reversal) it should actually move the pinion UP, not down down as it droops. Right?

    the links need to go all the way so that they experience only tension and compression stress.that one sees a lot of bending. ill draw a picture. the yellow is bending, the red and blue are tension and compression stresses. the lower one should go below the centerline of the axle tube at least a little.


    the jeepaholics one is an all around bad idea. if you put a shackle on the frame side it would work like its supposed to though.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by agjohn02; 10-18-2005 at 04:52 PM.

  8. #8
    Once was lost... BMFScout's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Wylie, Tejas
    Posts
    12,075
    so it would work that way, you are just skeered it would break where yellow meets red and blue? I like that bar because it gets the lower link up out of the way quicker than if it went all the way to the shackle. Otherwise, you would have a bar equal or lower than the driveshaft closer to the breakover point. It is usually a miracle my rear driveshaft makes it through an event as it is.
    Boats and hoes

    Stumble in to the liquor store
    With a dollar-fifty for a bottle of wine,
    I know just what I'm lookin for
    Thunderbird will do just fine.

  9. #9
    D-FENS agjohn02's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Cowtown
    Posts
    11,900
    it doesnt have to be that long and im skeered it'll bend in the middle where its yellow and keep your axle wrapped all the time.

  10. #10
    D-FENS agjohn02's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Cowtown
    Posts
    11,900
    andy, post a pic of yours

  11. #11
    Chubby Bunny davido's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    College Station, TX
    Posts
    4,244
    Quote Originally Posted by agjohn02
    the links need to go all the way so that they experience only tension and compression stress.that one sees a lot of bending. ill draw a picture. the yellow is bending, the red and blue are tension and compression stresses. the lower one should go below the centerline of the axle tube at least a little.
    I must first say that I'm not an engineer, but it seems like as long at they're between 90 - 180 degrees apart, it wouldn't matter where they were on the axle. This is assuming the arm also controls it as a fixed distance between the two eyes where it connects to the axle.

    Quote Originally Posted by agjohn02
    the jeepaholics one is an all around bad idea. if you put a shackle on the frame side it would work like its supposed to though.
    This also doesn't seem to make sense to me. If a shackle was on there, it wouldn't have a fixed point to pull and push from. It loses it's leverage and is pointless. Seems that if it has a shackle at the end, it would also need to be fixed from rotating at the axle. So either welded or attached at two locations on the axle.
    The disco ball in my mouth, insinuates I'm ballin'

  12. #12
    lo veo TxCruzr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Arizonaaaaah
    Posts
    2,223
    I couldn't find a pic of High5's but here is one that he was talking about that his is like. You've seen his rig and how well it works. Simple and effective.

    "Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter."

    '69 FJ-40, chevy383, sm420, 37's, RedNeckRam
    '08 Tundra SR5 Poser Douche Rig on 35's

  13. #13
    Chubby Bunny davido's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    College Station, TX
    Posts
    4,244
    This is the same design as Andy's:



    http://www.sams4x4store.com/specialt...Traction%20Bar
    The disco ball in my mouth, insinuates I'm ballin'

  14. #14
    Chubby Bunny davido's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    College Station, TX
    Posts
    4,244
    Quote Originally Posted by TxCruzr
    I couldn't find a pic of High5's but here is one that he was talking about that his is like. You've seen his rig and how well it works. Simple and effective.
    Yes, he's all about KISS which I like. The one you posted is sans shackle reversal. Great design. Pretty much what I'm thiking for the rear, but unfortuntately mine would have to go forward from the axle and I haven't yet found a convenient mounting point or shackle position (more details in original post).

    Keep the feedback coming though. This is helping. I'm just playing devil's advocate on some of it to expand on ideas.
    The disco ball in my mouth, insinuates I'm ballin'

  15. #15
    D-FENS agjohn02's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Cowtown
    Posts
    11,900
    Quote Originally Posted by davido
    I must first say that I'm not an engineer, but it seems like as long at they're between 90 - 180 degrees apart, it wouldn't matter where they were on the axle. This is assuming the arm also controls it as a fixed distance between the two eyes where it connects to the axle.
    if the lower point isnt below the axle centerline, it wont work like its suposed to...

    i.e.- 1) if its inline between the frame side of the link and the axle centerline, it will do absolutely nothing and the upper link will carry all the load.
    2) if its above the centerline, then both the links will experience the same stress (tension or compression) at the same time. this will leave the leaf springs to carry the reaction (opposing) force, causing them to load up, putting you right back where you were.

    the picture joseph posted is a good one for you. the upper link isnt too high and wont interfer with your fuel cell if you move it and the heims will keep it from limiting flex like bushings would.



    Quote Originally Posted by davido
    This also doesn't seem to make sense to me. If a shackle was on there, it wouldn't have a fixed point to pull and push from. It loses it's leverage and is pointless. Seems that if it has a shackle at the end, it would also need to be fixed from rotating at the axle. So either welded or attached at two locations on the axle.

    now that ive sat down and looked at it, your right. like i said first, its an all around bad idea.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •