Detroit vs. lunchbox locker

[Gearhead61]

What I'm trying to find out is this: aren't the D44 and 12 bolt comparable as far as strength? Why does everyone harp on the 12 bolt then and not the 44? Is it simply because of the c-clips?

And here's my thought on the gears. The rear R&P are missing some teeth, so they need new gears anyways. Nobody seems to have a problem with the front 44, so it's likely I'll be keeping that for quite some time. I might as well get matching lower gears for both axles, since I need new ones for the 12 bolt anyway, and the 44 will be around for awhile. Is the early-morning, been-studying-frantically delirium setting in, or does this make sense?

[KrazyKarl02]

As I understand it the Dana 44 and 10 bolt are equal. You can even take front shafts and swap them between 10 bolts and 44's. The 12 bolt is stronger, but the 14 bolt is stronger than that. 14 bolt is equal with a Dana 60, so I guess the 12 bolt is in the Dana 50 range.

[CRaSHnBuRN]

no, the rear 10 bolt is weaker then a 44 from what I have seen. My friend ran a 12 bolt in his chevy for a while. 350, SM465, 35 inch boggers. All the thing ever saw was the clay like mud we have here. He welded them up for traction, and killed three of them before just leaving them open, after which he killed 2 more. Ring and pinions busted, axle shafts busted, one c-clip let loose so the axle shaft pulled out, etc. Through this the welded front D44 never broke. Yeah, thats a fullsize truck, but if you gotta regear the 12 bolt anyway, why not get something better? A regear kit is what, 150-300 dollars? You can get a better replacement for 100 bucks or less. So why not?

[BroncoJo]

I'm not for sure which is stronger or weaker than a dana 44 but my buddy had a suburban with a old 350 with a few new mods and he blew up his rear end (it was a half ton with a 12 bolt I think) every three months with 36s and eventualy 38s and a auburn limited slip. It maybe went off road 3 times but he drove like a bat out of hell. eventualy he put a 12 bolt out of a ~2000 surban it did a little better but not much.

Another buddy had a 1966 chevy with a decent 350 and 37 in tsl radials and he rebuilt his 12 completly with a detroit locker. He did alot off offraoding mostly in the mud. He never had a problem.

For a sammy the 12 bolt is probly fine especialy with the sammy motor, It would have better clearnce then the 14 but I guess it depends on who you ask. I wouldn't drop alot of money in it, I sold the axles from the 66 for 400 dollars.

[Sharpe]

Allright kids pull up a chair.

I'm not familiar with 44s and different variations from different manufacturers but I do know my way around chevy axles.

12 bolts are ok, thats all you can say about them. They are comparable in strength to a later model 10 bolt which is comparable in strength to a dana 44. 12 bolts have a slightly larger ring gear than 10 bolts and maybe a wee bit bigger shafts, but their achilies' heel is their pinion, which is undersized for the rest of the axle.

"Later model" 10 bolts have a higher spline count and better shafts than their earlier versions, which makes them ultimately equal in strength to a 12 bolt (which GM stopped using in the late 70's). I believe they made the transition to "late model" 10 bolts in 87 or so. Dont bother trying to find a 10 bolt out of a 90's chevy truck to use, all the cool kids with Z71's on 35's that break them have driven the prices of a 6 lug 10 bolt of that vintage upwards of $700 in junkyards.

This 6 lug 14 bolt semi floater Brian speaks of would be a good choice, but I would hardly call them "easy" to find. I can count the number of trucks I've seen driving around with them on one hand and I have yet to see one in a junkyard. They came in 90's light duty 3/4 tons. The 14 bolt SF would probably be a little overkill for your sami though.

So in summary, unless you can find a late 80's 10 bolt, stick with the 12 for now.

Also, my vote goes towards lockers instead of welding, at leas in the front. Steering a truck with a locker in front in 4wd on the street blows ass. Sure you can unlock the hubs, but not if they are mangled from being dragged against the rocks at Katemcy.

[Reckless]

In a few months, I may have an axle out of a Z71 1/2 ill sell cheap.

[AggieTJ2007]

how about a 60, better ground clearance than a 14bolt, strong and rear 60's are easy to find

[Gearhead61]

no, the rear 10 bolt is weaker then a 44 from what I have seen. My friend ran a 12 bolt in his chevy for a while. 350, SM465, 35 inch boggers. All the thing ever saw was the clay like mud we have here. He welded them up for traction, and killed three of them before just leaving them open, after which he killed 2 more. Ring and pinions busted, axle shafts busted, one c-clip let loose so the axle shaft pulled out, etc. Through this the welded front D44 never broke. Yeah, thats a fullsize truck, but if you gotta regear the 12 bolt anyway, why not get something better? A regear kit is what, 150-300 dollars? You can get a better replacement for 100 bucks or less. So why not?

I think I remember new gears with install kit being right around $210 shipped, maybe a little less. If I was going to replace the 12 bolt, I'd be looking primarily for a D60 or 14 bolt, right? Can I really get one of those for $100? most I've seen I think have been in the $150-$200 I think. And they'd likely be 8 lug, right? So I'd have to get 8 lug outers for my D44. Then I'd have to go and get the axle (gas ain't cheap) and then regear the new axle too. When it all adds up, the cost isn't so marginal anymore I don't think. I hear what you're saying and it makes sense, but I think it's a risk I'll be willing to take.

Thanks everyone for the advice!

[jerryg79]

goto awesome in dallas and get any axle for $40 or something close...jimmy has the info

[BMFScout]

I think the truck ones are closer to $100 now, but last time I was there, there was still a cherokee 44 for $30. Car/suv axles are still $30.

[Gearhead61]

I think the truck ones are closer to $100 now, but last time I was there, there was still a cherokee 44 for $30. Car/suv axles are still $30.

Where's this place at? That's a hell of a deal. They sell engines?

[CRaSHnBuRN]

alot of the bigger yards in houston and dallas sell rear axles for 50 bucks. Some even do half off days. Or pick one up from a fellow wheeler. I got my D70 for 50 bucks.

Like you said, its $210 to regear that axle, but if you need a carrier, don't forget to add another 50-100 bucks. Then you got to think about the labor to set these gears if you can't do it yourself.

Yes, the D60/D70/14 bolt are 8 lug for the most part. This will require swapping outers on the front axle if you want to run the same wheels. The nice thing is once you're 8 lug, you can run hummer wheels with no mods. That gives you a double beadlock for dirt cheap. Prices for those are normally around 50 bucks a piece complete, and alot of times come with some crappy 36 inch goodyear tires that can be used for a while if money is really tight.

If you want to stay 6 lug, there are alot of good options out there as well

Waggy D44 - not as wide as your D44, but has an offset diff that works well with your T-case

Isuzu D44 - A little narrower than the waggy, but comes with disc brakes stock

Toy - either the 8 out of an older truck, or the 8.4 out of the tacos are good axles. Can be had with stock electric lockers in the taco versions, and they are a little wider

Isuzu 12 bolt - 2 versions, both beefier than a toy axle, but very similar. Several different widths available. Stock disc brakes. Early version is similar in size to a ford 9 inch, stock 4.56 gears, as well as some other options. Later version has D60 size R&P, 1.5 inch shafts, but only 4.30 gears

6 lug 14 bolt - hard to find, but exists

converted D60 - can be done with some machine work. Use the shops on campus

Ford 9 inch - gotta be converted as well, or swap your d44 outers for some 5 lug stuff

[CRaSHnBuRN]

I still think you'll be better off in the begining just using the stock gears and with lower t-case gears. What gearing is the D44? 4.10?

[DRAGOONRANCH]

I think that everybody is forgetting that one of his gear sets is toasted, as I did too.

[CRaSHnBuRN]

yeah, the rear R&P is gone, which is why I say ditch the 12 bolt. Why dump money into an inferior axle? If it was complete and in good shape, then run it as it is, but since its not there simply is no reason to keep it