Random Tech Questions

I need some advise on how to get some better gearing for my cj on the cheap. For starters I have a 258, t176, d300, and scout d44's with 3.54 gears.

My first choice would be 4 to 1 gears but they are out of my budget. Next would be regear the d44's but i dont want to do that because 1) I have already spent too much on them 2) for the cost of of regearing i could almost get the 4 to 1 kit. So I am thinking about swapping trannys and going auto. Possibly a tf999 or 727? Im not against keeping with a manual but i am trying to avoid spendy adapters and have heard lots of good about the control an auto tranny offers. what do yall think? What route would yall go?

And since everyone likes pictures. Here is a pic at clayton from spring break.
http://i580.photobucket.com/albums/s...0/100_2348.jpg

The t-176 is a great jeep tranny and pretty low gearing. the only other jeep manual trans you could change to and to not run an adapter would be a t-18. try to find one of those. right now you are at 33:1 gearing, a t-18 would take you up to 59:1.

a auto is not going to help you out a tf999 only has a first gear of 2.74 which would take you to a 25:1 ratio, the 747 is even worse with a first gear of 2.45 which gives you a 23:1 gearing.

edit: a pre 1980 JEEP t-18 will bolt in with no adapters, a 1980-1986 t-18 (even if out of a j-series jeep will require a transfercase adpater). All ford t-18s will require the same transfercase adapter but no engine adapter as the tremec-176 and ford bellhousing patterns are the same.

Kinda sucks you sunk money into the axles without regearing to at least a 4.10 or so. I would think a swap to another manual trans with a granny low might be the cheapest route. A doubler or a crawl box would also work, but not cheaply.

You are around 32:1 now, a 4:1 kit would give you about 50:1, a granny low would get something around 60:1. plusif you did a box or x case or 4:1 in the future you really get geared down quick.

windshield wipers, cheap or spend the money?

If you aren't geared low enough, going to an auto is going to be a bad thing. You don't have the power to spool up the tranny I think, ask sharpe how that goes. ;)

I would really recommend saving up a bit to get the 4:1 kit. This will give you the crawl you want, and keep the rig somewhat streetable for the time being until you get ready to regear. What is your locker situation in that rig?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RCcola55

windshield wipers, cheap or spend the money?

---

I like rain-x. I have 2 that I need to install. they are in the car. I'll show them to you when we leave the library.

$550 is out of budget, so...

i agree with a T-18. but wouldnt you need to find one in a 1980+ J20 with a 6cyl?

given that anything with a t-18 before that would have a d20 behind it.

goodluck finding one, but even if you paid $500 for one, you could sell the T176 for ~250 and you wouldnt be out that much and have better gearing liked you wished.

no j20, it has a long input shaft.

ford or cj t18

kopecki has an interesting formula for building an adapterless np435 dana 300 combo. I think its a dodge trans in a ford case.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by robertf03

no j20, it has a long input shaft.

ford or cj t18

kopecki has an interesting formula for building an adapterless np435 dana 300 combo. I think its a dodge trans in a ford case.

---

not if it came with the 258..

still longer than a ford or cj t18

flems (and I are) right the j series are WAY longer than the cj ones. look here http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/t18_t19.htm

You can't use a pre-1980 cj transmission without an adapter to D300.

Dodge np435 + ford input shaft + $25 pilot bearing + drill + steel works. Search for dodge 435, I think it's in my build thread.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 85cj7

a auto is not going to help you out a tf999 only has a first gear of 2.74 which would take you to a 25:1 ratio, the 747 is even worse with a first gear of 2.45 which gives you a 23:1 gearing.

---

you are forgetting the torque converter. generally, it contributes 2-2.5x torque multiplication. manual transmissions are for losers and weenie motors. a 258 has more power than sharpe's old diesel turd. i still dont see how a transmission swap is cheaper than any other option.

well said

4:1 kit is the way to go and will be the cheapest and easiest route. The kits are like 500-600 depending on what offers the manufactures are running.

Trans swap will cost quite a bit more you have to source the trans, rebuild it, find goofy or hard to find adapters, then on top of all of that you will most likely have to build new driveshafts.

As far as regearing the axles you gonna be hard pressed to do that for 500 by the time you buy both sets of gears, install kits, and new carriers. Plus what size tires are you running 33's? 4.56 would prolly be what gears you would swap to and might be to much for highway cruising. Also you aren't improving your gear ratio by that much.

My 0.02

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by eight

You can't use a pre-1980 cj transmission without an adapter to D300.

Dodge np435 + ford input shaft + $25 pilot bearing + drill + steel works. Search for dodge 435, I think it's in my build thread.

---

Who is correct? will a pre 80's jeep t-18 work w/out adapters or not? That seems like a good alternative if i can find one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by agjohn02

you are forgetting the torque converter. generally, it contributes 2-2.5x torque multiplication. manual transmissions are for losers and weenie motors. a 258 has more power than sharpe's old diesel turd. i still dont see how a transmission swap is cheaper than any other option.

---

well the 4 to 1 kit is around 800 dollars and i believe a tranny swap could be done in the $400 range if i can avoid spendy adapters.

I realize an auto will not necesarily lower my gear ratio but it does seem to allow you to control your rig more (ie. not bounce from rock to rock or stall as easily from riding the breaks). Last weekend i wheeled with two guys who had nearly identical drivetrains except one was running an auto and the other a manual. the guy with the auto did fine while the guy running the manual was in the same boat as me.. ?

Ill do some reading on the dodge np 435.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stx4wheeler

4:1 kit is the way to go and will be the cheapest and easiest route. The kits are like 500-600 depending on what offers the manufactures are running.

Trans swap will cost quite a bit more you have to source the trans, rebuild it, find goofy or hard to find adapters, then on top of all of that you will most likely have to build new driveshafts.

As far as regearing the axles you gonna be hard pressed to do that for 500 by the time you buy both sets of gears, install kits, and new carriers. Plus what size tires are you running 33's? 4.56 would prolly be what gears you would swap to and might be to much for highway cruising. Also you aren't improving your gear ratio by that much.

My 0.02

---

If i can find a 4 to 1 kit for around 500 than I will most likely go that route but the "advertised" prices i have seen are more like 800.

As far as the trans swap goes, i believe it could be done for under 500 (given i swap in a trans that does not require any expensive adapters). Also I would not rebuild the trans unless I put it in and its not working correctly. Plus, I will be building new driveshafts this summer anyways (when i would do the swap) because im stretching it.

Regearing the axles is pretty much out of the question. Like I said, I really dont care to spend anymore money on 1/2 ton axles.

Dragoon:
I am running a mini spool in the rear and and Aussie locker up front.

Jb conversions lomax 4:1 kit $550

http://www.jbconversions.com/products/dana300/

frog wheelin's fun. live a little :flipoff2:

all the 70's t18 came with a dana 20 so that would still be lower than now but i wouldn't do it. i vote 4-1 kit. thats what i have in my cj. if i would get my injection ironed out it would be great. also are you done with my reamer yet?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tommy53002

i believe a tranny swap could be done in the $400 range if i can avoid spendy adapters.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tommy53002

As far as the trans swap goes, i believe it could be done for under 500 (given i swap in a trans that does not require any expensive adapters).

---

keep going, you'll get to a reasonable number eventually.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stx4wheeler

Jb conversions lomax 4:1 kit $550

http://www.jbconversions.com/products/dana300/

---

yup. where the hell did you see $800 4:1 kit? I vote 231 doubler:flipoff2:

There is no such thing as a 23 spline t18 with a round pattern made before 1980. so one from a CJ WOULD NOT WORK. unless you changed/bought an adapter. or run a scout D300.

and a J-series truck would have like a 1" spacer for the bell housing (must be from a truck equipped with a 258 6 cyl) so... whoop-de-****. it would be bolt in minus altering the crossmember. and since your stretching it anyways that minute difference wouldn't matter.

3.52 => 6.32 = ~44% increase

2.62 => 4 = ~34% increase

or collect parts to run a bastardized 435. Dodge case + ford input + $20 pilot bearing.

or swap from a t-176 to a ford NP435(that came with a np208) and buy a new $200 input shaft from JB, advance adapter, etc.

or scour pirate for a used t-case.

the only way to get a trans swap done cheaply is to buy whole vehicles and part them out which takes time and space. if you do it right you get paid to get the parts.

anyone know the distance from the middle of the spring pad to the wheel mounting surface on a 88.5+ ford D60?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eckert

yup. where the hell did you see $800 4:1 kit? I vote 231 doubler:flipoff2:

---

Teraflex 4 to 1 kit is listed at 988.99 on their website. I am waiting on a quote on pirate for one but I imagine it will not be as low as JB converstion's.

Would any adapters be needed to run a 231 doubler (box4rox)? Its priced at $499 + a 231 + getting it tig welded + ??? = probably too much. but i guess thats a maybe.

your running a cj5 right, unless your planning on adding at least 6 inches to the rear don't plan on a doubler, rear dshaft is to short

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by colman

your running a cj5 right, unless your planning on adding at least 6 inches to the rear don't plan on a doubler, rear dshaft is to short

---

My rear stretch will be 8-10 inches.

jb conversion is the ONLY good d-300 4:1 kit, the teraflex gears are two piece gears and a lot of people have problems with them breaking. read this . . .http://www.jbconversions.com/products/dana300/

also, yes the 4:1 kit is pretty affordable, however, I have wanted to do the 4:1 gears for a while but keep putting it off because it only makes sense that while you have the entire case apart you do the 32 spline input and outputs as well. With both outputs and gears it is about 1200 (not including machining costs for the output flange). having the 4:1 gears adds a lot of stress on the stock f/r outputs.

here is my 435 swap
http://tamor.org/forums/showpost.php...&postcount=389
http://tamor.org/forums/showpost.php...&postcount=390
http://tamor.org/forums/showpost.php...&postcount=393

it took me from 32:1 to 65:1, now at 85:1 with the 4.88s.

Cost run down. . .
NP435=$75
Pilot Bushing=$10
Gear oil=$25
Shifter Boots=$40
Adapter=$560
NP435 Small Parts Kit/Seal Kit=$40
Total=$750

Re-sell
T-176=$200
Clocking Kit=$175
Total=$375

Spent=$375 net

It looks like 4 to 1 is the way I will be going. Im not too worried about the output shaft, I will not be running over a 35-36 inch tire for a while. Isnt colman running 4 to 1 in his dana 300? Is he running the shaft upgrade? has he had any problems?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tommy53002

My rear stretch will be 8-10 inches.

---

noooo, don't do it!


the transmission swap is the best way to fix the gearing. You don't want 4:1 when you're hauling ass down the access roads at the trail, and shifting dana cases from low to high after beating on them a while isn't always the easiest thing to do.

ya , colman has the 4:1 (and the teraflex ones at that) without the output upgrades but I don't think he has put too many hours on it. Coop is running the jbconversion stuff and did the 32 spline outputs front and rear and the clock at the same time. Like I said I'm waiting to build my d-300 completely the first time. But it's your jeep if you don't think you'll beat on it hard enough to break it, no one knows better than you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by robertf03

noooo, don't do it!


the transmission swap is the best way to fix the gearing. You don't want 4:1 when you're hauling ass down the access roads at the trail, and shifting dana cases from low to high after beating on them a while isn't always the easiest thing to do.

---

do you really think gearing will be that bad with the 4 to 1 given I only have 3.54 gears at the axle?

What transmission then? Auto or manual? I have heard alot of people say they will never go back to a manual after switching to a auto. I am fairly clueless when it comes to auto but i have heard people talk about torque multiplication?? I have pleanty of time to figure this out and find something. I wont be doing the swap untill this summer. Thanks for the help so far.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by uglyota

So why not bump the thread with the relevant information/inquiries and ask again, or just do the dam work yourself and share what you find?

---

Your just full of good advice!

swapped it all over. everything is identical. using a '96 NP241C and a '99 NP231J.

instead of just input shafts, i swapped the planetary and all. appearently there is a slight difference in the way the gears were cut sometime in '95. so use 94 and down cases or 96 and up cases.

anyone need a 23 spline NP241? :D

ill even post pics later with comparison shots between the two.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by robertf03

You don't want 4:1 when you're hauling ass down the access roads at the trail

---

i do believe that's what 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gear are for.

and to answer your question about box4rocks. yeah, its $499 + a donor case. it was cheaper for me to go that route, and i get a lower and better selection of gears since i will be using a 700R4. then you always have the option of upgrading the D300 or NP231(i think) to 4:1 for silly and/or stupid low.

i was able to get my cases for cheap/free though.

i have had both auto and manual on the trail... auto is by far easier... manual is better though... depends on how bad you suck at stick i guess

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eckert

Your just full of good advice!

swapped it all over. everything is identical. using a '96 NP241C and a '99 NP231J.

instead of just input shafts, i swapped the planetary and all. appearently there is a slight difference in the way the gears were cut sometime in '95. so use 94 and down cases or 96 and up cases.

anyone need a 23 spline NP241? :D

ill even post pics later with comparison shots between the two.

---

thank you for sharing

hooker :flipoff2:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by robertf03

noooo, don't do it!


the transmission swap is the best way to fix the gearing. You don't want 4:1 when you're hauling ass down the access roads at the trail, and shifting dana cases from low to high after beating on them a while isn't always the easiest thing to do.

---

but with a manual you can put it in fourth and go

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by uglyota

thank you for sharing

hooker :flipoff2:

---

since you asked so nicely:flipoff2:

inputs and planetary, 27 spline on right, notice the 6 gears vs. 3:

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h1...s/IMG_2835.jpg

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h1...s/IMG_2834.jpg

mainshaft for giggles:

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h1...s/IMG_2838.jpg

23 spline installed in 241 case:
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h1...s/IMG_2839.jpg

27 spline installed in 231 case:
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h1...s/IMG_2841.jpg

My buddy has a 02 Grand Cherokee and it started overheating tonight, I couldn't check to see if the coolant was circulating because it was too hot and I didn't want to open it up. But I noticed the fan wasn't on at all. What all should I check? I was thinking about running a wire straight to the battery to see if the fan turns on and if it worked then it would be the thermostat sending unit, sound right? The temp gauge was functioning and the overflow tank was full of coolant.

Yeah check the fan stuff first it might be the relay or fuse for the fan( assuming it's electric).